The New Design

[cwarn23]

Hi, I just come back from a long time with a broken internet and now I see a new design on daniweb. Is it just me or do you for some parts of text need to squint and other parts move to the opposite end of the room to read? I love the joke behind the new thread button making it a mile high. But as for my recommendation it is mainly the purple text that is the problem. On some pages I need to adjust the page size to 90% or 80% so that I don't need to step away from the screen to read it. So seriously could you reconsider resizing some of the text as it's really annoying.
Thanks.

[BestJewSinceJC]

She has already heard this feedback but yeah, it is pretty much 100% consensus that some items are too large and some are too small.

[lllllIllIlllI]

Also, its been just one day. There have been things fixed all over the place, things will get better, just give them time.

We can't have everything fixed all at once

[colweb]

Also, its been just one day. There have been things fixed all over the place, things will get better, just give them time.

We can't have everything fixed all at once

After you have been building a site or restyled and existing one, you should test and test again and again before putting it online. Even after all that testing some improvements can always be made but it shouldn't be necessary to fix much.

For Daniweb there are too many things that needs to be fixed to stay my favorite forum site. And after reading the replies, it seems that a lot of the requested fixes (changes) are not going to take place.

@Paul Thompson, if the users don't post there complains, nothing will change. No matter how much time you give the people behind Daniweb.

[lllllIllIlllI]

I understand that we need to alert dani to the things that are wrong. Its just there are so many things going on some people are getting annoyed that their problem is not the first one being fixed..

And i agree with you up to a point, there could definitely been more testing done. But eh, when you only have one person that does the coding and without any kind of beta period you can't expect much better..

hahaha, i guess you could think of the next couple of weeks as the beta period for the new daniweb :P

[colweb]

i guess you could think of the next couple of weeks as the beta period for the new daniweb

There are more sites who publish new design but they ask users to test and comment. The old site is during such period still online and working.

[G_Waddell]

Hi,

I'm having an issue with IE 8 and the new design I can't access most of the forums because dropdown menus are appearing behind the Google ads along the top.

I tried to go to the category page and navigate from there but unless there is a recent post from the forum I want I'm stuck....

[Dani]

Investigating the Google issue. In the meantime, you can go into a category. Then click the title of the category (where it says click to expand) to bring up a menu of subforums.

[G_Waddell]

Investigating the Google issue. In the meantime, you can go into a category. Then click the title of the category (where it says click to expand) to bring up a menu of subforums.

Thanks!

I do actually like the site, although the main thing I enjoy is the fact that the folks out there really do care and lend a hand -it is a good community of people that you have built up on the site - well done.

[colweb]

Thanks!

I do actually like the site, although the main thing I enjoy is the fact that the folks out there really do care and lend a hand -it is a good community of people that you have built up on the site - well done.

Sorry to say, but that is about to change. Some of the trusty posters are leaving already.

[~s.o.s~]

Sorry to say, but that is about to change. Some of the trusty posters are leaving already.

Really? That's a pretty bold statement. Confused and irritated maybe. Leaving? Don't think so.

@Everyone
This is normally how new changes are rolled out on Daniweb. The new features which need to be introduced are made live, feedback is collected from regulars, changes are made to the site, rinse and repeat. I'm pretty sure that with the help of suggestions given by the regulars along with Dani working on them, things would be the way everyone likes it in a couple of weeks.

The new changes are a bit irritating but saying things like "this new design sucks" etc. instead of giving suggestions and waiting patiently for them to be resolved isn't fair IMO.

Really? That's a pretty bold statement. Confused and irritated maybe. Leaving? Don't think so.

...snipped...

The new changes are a bit irritating but saying things like "this new design sucks" etc. instead of giving suggestions and waiting patiently for them to be resolved isn't fair IMO.

So confused and irritated, that I'm taking a break - although I can't profess to being a "trusty poster". This design doesn't suck - well not altogether - but it ain't good.

Came back today to see if I can get a handle on threads to which I've posted. Doh! Will check in a week's time.

[colweb]

Sorry to say, but that is about to change. Some of the trusty posters are leaving already.

Really? That's a pretty bold statement. Confused and irritated maybe. Leaving? Don't think so.

At least one is saying it here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/post1219253.html#post1219253

And if you take a look in the forums you see that some of the heavy poster didn't post the last 2 days.

[WaltP]

@Everyone
This is normally how new changes are rolled out on Daniweb. The new features which need to be introduced are made live, feedback is collected from regulars, changes are made to the site, rinse and repeat. I'm pretty sure that with the help of suggestions given by the regulars along with Dani working on them, things would be the way everyone likes it in a couple of weeks.

And that's the problem. Rather than keeping the site viable, it's an all or nothing. It's the Microsoft version of beta testing -- roll it out and let the users test it.

A core of people here should have beat on it for a couple weeks before rolling out to the general population. Then 70% of the problems and irritations would be gone. Like missing features (post number, navigation, post indicators), positional faux pax's (Start New Thread at bottom), Auto-expands that cover required links, and font sizes and colors. These should not be tested by the general members.

The new changes are a bit irritating but saying things like "this new design sucks" etc. instead of giving suggestions and waiting patiently for them to be resolved isn't fair IMO.

Completely agree. But to be fair, most that say it sucks are explaining why.

[~s.o.s~]

This design doesn't suck - well not altogether - but it ain't good.

Maybe it isn't and that's why we have suggestions pouring in, trying to help out with the cause here. IMO, if everyone started taking "breaks" and everyone stated that they were "done with the site", there would be nothing left to improve here.

At least one is saying it here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/post12...ml#post1219253

Yes, he does say that. Reading that post/thread really makes me sad. Not because a "trusty" Daniweb member decides not to post to the site. It's because I'm surprised how demanding/unrealistic people can get. Noticed the number of feedback threads created in the 'Feedback subforum' over the last 24 hours, not to mention the thousands of "suggestions" offered in each of them? Do people really expect all these suggestions be implemented ASAP esp with a single person (a small team?) doing all the changes?

So let me say this again, I'm not a big fan of the new design. Heck, even my posting activity has come down significantly. But I, being a "trusty" (hopefully) member of this forum, decide to wait and watch rather than roll my eyes and walk away...

[~s.o.s~]

Rather than keeping the site viable, it's an all or nothing

It *has* got to be this way otherwise even a slight dissatisfaction with the new site design would make members *not* use the new site and the entire point of rolling out a new version would be moot. It is because there is no old version available that people are testing out the new design changes and pouring in suggestions. Logical, no?

But to be fair, most that say it sucks are explaining why.

IMHO, life is too short to be making people unhappy. I'd rather not post anything in the programming forums than post some real cool answer which starts with "Hey, you know what? Your code *stinks* and so do you. Muahahaha". But that's just me I guess. Respectfully but strongly disagreeing with something is one thing; posting some smartass, witty, sarcastic thing is another.

Peace.

[colweb]

Noticed the number of feedback threads created in the 'Feedback subforum' over the last 24 hours, not to mention the thousands of "suggestions" offered in each of them? Do people really expect all these suggestions be implemented ASAP esp with a single person (a small team?) doing all the changes?

@~s.o.s~, All those "thousands of suggestions" shouldn't be there if the good things from the old site where not thrown away, made hidden or unreadable.

The current site doesn't look like a redesign, but more like "let's throw the old site away and start a complete new one". Nothing wrong with that, but when doing so, please test and test and test before putting it online.

Some other sites I visit, have redesigned there site a couple of times. But most of them offer the old site for 4 to 6 weeks, encourage the users to use the new version make comments and come with suggestions. After the initial trial period the old version goes offline.

It is my personal opinion, but I think Daniweb should have followed that road also. It wouldn't have given so much negative comments.

[BestJewSinceJC]

This is normally how new changes are rolled out on Daniweb. The new features which need to be introduced are made live, feedback is collected from regulars, changes are made to the site, rinse and repeat.

The problem isn't the new features. It is the lack of old features and the feel that the release was done in haste. For example, why was the site rolled out without the badges available? Why weren't the solved threads displayed next to a members name? Why didn't each post have a post number? Why does it seem so much harder to navigate the site, and why are less important features accentuated while others are hard to find? For example, it is hard to find the forum listing of all the forums, but on the homepage, there is a huge listing of "Recommended Forums". Why do I even need this recommendation? I've been a member here for two years, so shouldn't there be something more useful displayed to me on the homepage? Even if the recommended forums were helpful, why do they take up so much of the homepage - shouldn't they be a "side suggestion"?

IMHO, life is too short to be making people unhappy. I'd rather not post anything in the programming forums than post some real cool answer which starts with "Hey, you know what? Your code *stinks* and so do you. Muahahaha".

But very few people here are treating Dani with this type of attitude. Sure, many, including myself, are very strong about our opinions. Constructive criticism and rudeness are different.

[~s.o.s~]

@~s.o.s~, All those "thousands of suggestions" shouldn't be there if the good things from the old site where not thrown away, made hidden or unreadable.

I would rather call it "trying out something new". Though I agree that this change was a bit too sudden, the missing features were I guess an attempt to try out some new things.

Every member has a different way of interacting with the site. Some can't live without "MFF", some need to know the solved thread count for every member etc. I guess it is the absence of these small things which were observed by regulars made it look like a *lot* was left out when I'm sure there are still use cases out there which haven't been tried out.

But very few people here are treating Dani with this type of attitude

My latter part of the post was specifically aimed at them.

[lllllIllIlllI]

Sorry to say, but that is about to change. Some of the trusty posters are leaving already.

Oh come on. stop being so melodramatic. Some people will go, thats life, and anyway, apart from jephthah. But really, once issues are sorted out people will begin to post more regularly but sheesh, you sound like the site is going to die. Its not.

[Biker920]

I am getting used to the site design and navigation that said purple of any shade is pukey. my opinion take it or leave it. Later---

[colweb]

you sound like the site is going to die. Its not.

I hope it isn't. But I would like to see a lot of the old functionality back. And it seems I'm not alone about that.
The way things are looking right now, not only the site is new but the users also. Take a look at the forums... and you see what I mean. A lot of the heavy posters haven't posted the last 2 or 3 days, or only replied to threads they where already posting in before the site changed.

[WaltP]

Rather than keeping the site viable, it's an all or nothing

It *has* got to be this way otherwise even a slight dissatisfaction with the new site design would make members *not* use the new site and the entire point of rolling out a new version would be moot. It is because there is no old version available that people are testing out the new design changes and pouring in suggestions. Logical, no?

No. What's logical is to have a new site that only a select few (admin, top mods) can access to shake the bugs out. After some time, open that site to a few more people (all mods, select top members). Then when things seem shaken out, open it for all with the old site still working, with an expiration date.

Then, for a month or so you can use either site. Finally, the old site is taken down. That's the logical way to do it. And that's what I see happen elsewhere when such a major upgrade is planned.

[lllllIllIlllI]

Yeah i agree. It would have been nice, yet so much more complicated.

@sos
This is what happens when change isn't managed. I took a "break" and did something constructive in the meantime (see http://www.daniweb.com/forums/post1221059.html#post1221059). Hope you don't mistake frustration and irritation for petulance.

In addition - following the mess of this makeover, I think users are justified in having a bit of a whinge. Some of them have made this site what it is with their contribution. Chiding them for complaining or "rolling their eyes", is just being aloof.

Out--

[~s.o.s~]

This is what happens when change isn't managed. I took a "break" and did something constructive in the meantime (see http://www.daniweb.com/forums/post12...ml#post1221059). Hope you don't mistake frustration and irritation for petulance.

My replies in this thread weren't aimed at anyone in particular; they are more along the lines of "you know who you are". It's human nature to go in a state of chaos when things around them change unexpectedly and the reaction evoked is different depending on the personality of the individual so the reaction given by Daniweb members is a given. The problem is that some replies made it look as if nothing was being done to remedy the situation.

Regarding the part about "managed change", I've previously mentioned that this is how Daniweb has always rolled out changes. I know how software changes are normally rolled out (me <- software developer) and this might not be the best way of doing things but I'm sure there might be a good reason for *not* using a test server to deploy the new application and allowing users to still access the old design.

And no, it would be bad if I started mistaking frustration and irritation for petulance. :)

In addition - following the mess of this makeover, I think users are justified in having a bit of a whinge

Definitely, after all, it's the users who make/break a community. I've along with other fellow Daniweb members posted my share of whining as soon as the new design came out. But the approach used by some is downright wrong. Compare this:

I'm not really happy with the current design. There are few observations I'd like to make:
1. The font is way too small
2. The purple color of the site stresses out my eyes way too much
etc etc
This is a pretty drastic change and I hope things are put back to where they belonged.

to this:

WTF, these changes suck. Why is the font so small!?! This purple theme is sick. Couldn't you find a better colour? I'm really disappointed with the changes and won't post to this site unless things are put back to where they belonged...

I personally think that the former is a better way of giving feedback.

Some of them have made this site what it is with their contribution. Chiding them for complaining or "rolling their eyes", is just being aloof.

And I wouldn't know that? :) I've been here for long enough to know that and totally respect this statement. This is all the more reason why patience and help in fixing the bugs is expected of these contributing members. I have nothing against complaining as long as it is done in a civilized manner. IMO, flailing arms and legs like a 3 year old won't help the situation, no? :)

Peace--

[Ancient Dragon]

Just logged on after 24 hours.
1) I liked the revised buttons that are now clickable. That's a good improvement

2) Don't like the way the badges were implemented. Although they are usable they are not as nice looking as in the previous version of DaniWeb. In previous versions it was immediately obvious who the mods were -- that is more obscure now unless of course you know who they are anyway.

I don't like the way the badge popup is shown whenever the mouse hovers on any part of the user name column, such as it pops up even when you put the mouse on the Edit/Delete button. IMO it should only pop up when the mouse is over the avatar or user name.

3) The "Edit/Delete" button still has not been changed to just "Edit". It does no harm to leave it, but its such a simple change that should take someone only a few seconds to fix.

Where are the stars? I liked the stars - easier than numbers. But no big deal I suppose

[Froger93]

My main issues are in the actual back end programming. I have already lost an account as I can't reactivate it after having changed my email address.

I tried to contact the addresses it told me to but just got postmaster not received...

[Dani]

The backend code has not changed at all, except for the homepage and a couple of very small minor tweaks. Can you perhaps start a new thread outlining your problem and exactly what goes wrong, and I'll investigate it.