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Feb 12th, 2008
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Query on evolution

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From what I've seen, any discussion of any kind of scientific or pseudoscientific material on this board will nearly inevitably lead into a comparison with evolution. This is in addition to instances where the issue is brought up in terms of other beliefs, such as the depiction of Mike Huckabee given recently in the Presidential Poll thread by ZZucker.

I recognize that many people here believe in evolution. So, I would like to make a request of you. If you accept that the principles of evolution as generally taught in schools and universities now are true, would you please list the specific evidence that lead you to believe this?

Thank you,
-EnderX
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Re: Query on evolution

This ought to be interesting
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Re: Query on evolution

The HIV virus evolves all the time to try and survive in its host. Humans share almost 98% of our DNA with chimps. How close our arm bones look to that of a mouse. Animals that live on completely different continents and are completely different species look very similar. How similar chimps and humans act. Neanderthal man and how we have changed from him. Darwin discovered finches that all lived relatively close together yet all had different beaks specialized for the food on their island. Thats not everything but it a good list. And evolution does not challenge god. God could have created the beginning animals and let themselves evolve. I don't believe that but if you are religious it makes sense.
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Re: Query on evolution

The "defects" of organisms is quite damning as well.
For example, the human eye has light receptors underneath muscle. We also get goose bumps when we're cold, the original purpose of which was to fluff hair. The tail bone also suggests evolution. Look in any biology book and I assure you that you'll find more examples of evolution.
Last edited by Sturm; Feb 12th, 2008 at 6:50 pm.
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Re: Query on evolution

If you don't believe in evolution then you are an idiot.

I site history, archeology, psychology, etc. as proof.

As the previous two posters have already stated, DNA and observations of species are our main evidence for evolution. Humans are imperfect, and there are many things which can still be improved upon.. the fact that microevolution occurs on a daily basis: viruses such as HIV, humans adapting to different environments and developing new characteristics (webbed feet, higher tolerance of certain poisons, immunity, etc.)

Quite frankly, I really don't understand how you cannot believe in evolution. The connections are so damn obvious! Step outside your house and take a look around you!
Last edited by joshSCH; Feb 12th, 2008 at 11:41 pm.
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Re: Query on evolution

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by EnderX ...
From what I've seen, any discussion of any kind of scientific or pseudoscientific material on this board will nearly inevitably lead into a comparison with evolution. This is in addition to instances where the issue is brought up in terms of other beliefs, such as the depiction of Mike Huckabee given recently in the Presidential Poll thread by ZZucker.

I recognize that many people here believe in evolution. So, I would like to make a request of you. If you accept that the principles of evolution as generally taught in schools and universities now are true, would you please list the specific evidence that lead you to believe this?

Thank you,
-EnderX
Ender - very good question!
In order to talk about the principles of evolution, there are a couple of things that must be accepted (or not <grin>):
1) The universe is very, very old - the latest (revised) estimates put the age at between 11 and 20 billion years old, using astronomic observations (red shift, etc.);
2) The solar system is very old (currently believed to be 4.5 billion years old, counting from the ignition of the sun's fusion)
3) The earth is old - the oldest rocks on earth are approximately the same as the solar system (let's just wave hands here and say someone looked at radioactivity and lead) and after an incredibly long time, it cooled and so on.

If you can accept the above, we can proceed to plate tectonics - the idea that the earth is a huge ball of molten nickel and iron with a thin skin of minerals that have solidified floating on the surface. Convection currents move the continents around (stuff bubbles up under the Pacific and Atlantic oceans and subsides around the rim of the Pacific Ocean - the so-called ring of fire). All this moves so slowly that stuff that happened 300 million years ago is layered below stuff that happened 200 million years ago (and so on). Earthquakes, volcanoes and so on can mix up some of the layers but in obvious ways.

Fossils laid down during one era are separated from fossils laid down in different eras.
There is a fossil record in the earth that can be read; the record appears to show that living things change over time to match changes in the environment. The fossil record shows intermediate species between one form and a later one.

More recently, we have DNA records in the form mitochondrial DNA which is passed only through women (more hand-waving at biology). The mitochondriaDNA (call it mDNA) from a - er, 'pure-blooded' woman from the Ethiopian rift compared to the mDNA from a 'pure-blooded' Eskimo vary in quite specific ways that can actually be tracked by testing the mDNA from Africa across the Mediterranean up through Europe to Greenland. A different but similar trail can be followed from Ethiopia across Asia to the Eskimos of Siberia and North America (and of course some lateral transfer around the arctic circle << I use the term Eskimo advisedly here as I do not know the names of all the different peoples who live in that area which include but is not limited to the Inuit groups >>.

This is just a general description of the reasons I believe in evolution and should not be taken as anything more than a rough sketch. If you would like more specific and exacting evidence, I can provide that. I am willing to discuss any of this in more detail - though I have pretty much reached my limits w.r.t. DNA.

While researching this blurb I ran into a couple of interesting digression including this question:
Which came first - mitochondria or chloroplasts? (no consensus - mitochondria require oxygen and don't (aerobic vs. anaerobic) so they could survive in the early, pre-oxygen atmosphere -- on the other hand it the mitochondria that produce energy in living systems).

I hope this helps somewhat??
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Re: Query on evolution

I enjoyed this article recently.
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Re: Query on evolution

Another one of Daves endless drivel spouting links.
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Re: Query on evolution

Some of the comments were interesting but the article itself was pretty deficient.
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Re: Query on evolution

Another recent read -- more of a political angle.
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This thread is more than three months old

No one has posted to this discussion for at least three months. Please let old threads die and do not reply to them unless you feel you have something new and valuable to contribute that absolutely must be added to make the discussion complete. Otherwise, please start a new thread in this forum instead.
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