I am a believer that it's alright to disagree as long as neither party tries to impose its view by means of compulsion.
In fact if I wanted agreement from people, I would have gone down to the local church, instead of posting in the forum.

You may not.
At least, not without hearing from me. The question doesn't need re-phrasing so you can
spin it to agree with whatever you wanted to say.

For all of you that feel the need to rush to aid, in the understanding for the need of government, by quickly pointing out the "wonderful" services we are receiving from it, and the "marvelous" programs WE all can benefit of, I would like to invite you to ponder about the parasitic nature that government incurs upon its citizenry.
I had always marveled at the similitude between virus and government. Both depend on the host for existence. Both will turn against the host for expansion, and propagation. Both will end killing the host if no intervention is applied to avoid expansion.

Furthermore, there's only two means for obtaining wealth. The method of production and voluntary exchange, the economic means or free market, and the other is the method of robbery by violence, or promise of violence.
Rhetoric question:
Which of these two does government fit in?

You have not made a case for whether the government is parasitic or symbiotic. Sometimes the untrained can not tell the differenceAn amusing analogy but describes neither virii nor government except in the most general, out of focus way.This is called a 'false dichotomy' (sometimes 'false dilemma') leading to: an actual rhetorical argument - ie.

...[the refusal to] use demonstrable or tested truths, but resort to fallible opinions, popular perceptions, transient beliefs, chosen evidence or evidence at hand

Someone has to be in the center.

But it doesn't have to be the government -- it should be your family and friends.

"I had always marveled at the similitude between virus and government. Both depend on the host for existence. Both will turn against the host for expansion, and propagation. Both will end killing the host if no intervention is applied to avoid expansion."
Maybe you're a biologist? Ever heard of symbiosis?
You seem to be promoting Anarchy, or at least some very limited form of government, and that's fine, but theoretical arguments tend to be sophomoric and fail to deal with the reality of 300,000,000 or so citizens who need government of some kind.
We're getting the government we voted for. If it fails on many levels (and it does), get off your butt and do something about it.
Forget black and white. This is a very gray problem that takes dedication, education, time and experience to solve.
You're probably smart enough to be part of the solution , but I warn you, it's a tough problem and can be all-consuming.
We could start, of course, by electing Obama, who has the vision to realize we need substantive change.

>>BS, PH, CIB
In your signature, what is CIB ? Here is a list of 43 possibilities

Combat Infantry Badge (Vietnam, 1967-'68)

With all due respect and without desire to draw enmity between you and I, Mr. Ancient Dragon.
Was that really necessary to post such an unrelated question to the topic of the thread or to where the discussion is leading too?
If you were so interested in it, could you have not send him a personal e-mail? Maybe an invitation to chat in IRC channel? Instead of derailing the conversation?

In the private forum of my mind I must cast a vote of no confidence in your ability to be a moderator at this time.



While is it true I started this thread based on the allegedly comment of one of the presidential candidate hopeful of USA, I am quite sure I have been careful enough not to make mention to The United States of America government, nor to the Constitution of this our country.
Nevertheless, I would like to make sure that people understand that I wouldn't mind if references exclusively to USA are left a little bit outside, since I am not arrogant enough to believe every visitor to this site knows about our Constitution, nor they have a Constitution or need one.
Confident that the nature of government is such a constant regardless whether you live in a Monarchy, or a Republic or any other form under the sun, I do not want to exclude any one of participating in the conversation.
Can we keep it that way?
That said; mighty assumption on your part Mr. hughv to think people are not doing something about it, nor that the only real valid "something done" is to vote for the man named Barack.

In several ocations already as a rebuttal to my proposition that government is parasitic in nature, the words symbiotic and symbiosis have been thrown to the arena of discussion as a hint.

As a hit I decided to explain my position with a little of humor. The only risk is a laugh which is exempt of taxes so far. ( I don't expect you to laugh )

Two well known parasites meet at a bar. They start talking about their lives.
We join the conversation at the point where the tapeworm is telling the mosquito about his last host.

Tworm: ...And I told her that our relationship was a symbolic one...
Mosquito: Don't you mean symbiotic?
Tworm: Yeah, yeah. Symbiotic. That's it. That's what I told her; that thanks to me, she will never have to worry about being fat.
Mosquito: Hehe!, Well said, well said.
Tworm: Yeah, those were glorious days of joy. Too bad it didn't last.
Mosquito: Why?
Tworm: She died!, That's why I am hostless right now talking to you.
Mosquito: Oh, man, sorry to hear.
Tworm: <sniff>
Mosquito: That's the reason why I like to deal only with animal clients. It's a little bit more of a shaky relationship, you know, but the benefits outweigh the “cons”.
TapeWorm: Tell me more!
Mosquito: The other day, I was on the ear of this lovely cow drawing some blood, when the cow started to shake its ear and said:
Patched Cow: Shu!!!, Shu away!!, leave me alone!
Mosquito: “C'mon sweetheart” This is good for you. You need me to draw some blood from you every day so the blood will quickly be replaced and in that way it is more healthy blood for you.
PatchedCow: Shu!
Mosquito: You need me and I need you. It a wonderful symbiotic arrangement. In fact, do you see this big “S” I have here on my chess? It is a birth mark I like to believe it stands for Symbiotic.
Patched Cow: Wrong! It stands for Sucker. Shu away before I squash you.
Tape Worm: Hahaha! The lady had an attitude. Hey, say....could you introduce me to her?
Mosquito: Are you nuts? You are a parasite. No way!
Tape Worm: Who are you calling parasite? Sucker!!!.
Mosquito: < punches the tapeworm in its blind head>
At which point a fight breaks out and we leave the scene.

Wow, and you dissed AD for asking about someone about the initials in their post -- you on the other hand post a pointless (tasteless, heh,heh) joke about lawyers. I don't get it??