Aurora, Colorado - Page 2

[Reverend Jim]

You forgot Celine Dion and Justin Bieber. I'm so very sorry.

@Reverend Jim

This thread that you post "Aurora, Colorado"

At first I thought you created this thread to pay your sympathy and respect to the families that lost their love ones at this tragic event. I mean if you don't really like our government, then post another thread for that topic. I'm a Christian, so I think best not keep posting on conspiracy theories on the American government on this thread instead let members post their regards and sympathy to the families. I know you create this thread but I never thought you will vent on our government. It's wrong, it's not the right time to do that. Right now, everyone in America is on edge because of the economy and violence are getting worst each day.

[Reverend Jim]

Of course my condolances go out to the surviviors and the families of the victims of this horrible tragedy. I apologize for not stating that at the very start. But when something like this happens, how long a period is it necessary to wait before discussing what to do to fix the problem? I notice the police didn't waste any time arresting the shooter. This is the most obvious first step to take. The next step is to take action to prevent further tragedies of this sort. You don't honour the memories of the victims by allowing more people to die.

The thread was originally focused on guns and gun laws but, as happens, digressed into government and corruption of same. It seems that as the frequency of these incidents increases, the reaction is to pass laws that relax the gun restrictions even further. This is not a conspiracy theory. The statistics show that you are more likely to be shot in the states that have the least restrictive gun laws.

Here in Canada we have had our own problems with guns and violence. We have had school shootings, and just recently there were several deaths at a block party in Toronto when someone started shooting. We are not immune to the problems you are facing. We are just a little further behind the curve so what happens down south is of great interest to me.

Your collapsing economy and the violence are not unrelated. The economy did not collapse on its own. I am not an economist but it seems clear to me that it did not collapse on its own accord. It collapsed because of the decisions of people who were motivated by their own greed. These decisions were made possible because of the deregulation that has been going on for decades. Your economy collapsed when the housing bubble burst. Ours hasn't. Yet. Again, perhaps we are only behind the curve. At the moment our banks are heavily regulated. That is why our system is stable while yours, and Europe's are in crisis. Our gun deaths are a mere fraction of yours. Again, our guns are heavily regulated while yours are not.

And of course, no amount of debate can possibly ease the suffering in Aurora.

[Ancient Dragon]

Our gun deaths are a mere fraction of yours.

Most likely because most of Canada is frozen wasteland.

Here are some interesting data, a little old but interesting.

@Reverend Jim

I understand, it's just a miscommunication.

Of course my condolances go out to the surviviors and the families of the victims of this horrible tragedy.

It's good that you acknowledge that you didn't begin with it. But it's fine. I mean it's still your thread and topic.

It's seem that Ancient Dragon not giving up on this debate. That's another thing you both have in common "persistence"

Once you start a topic, it's hard to not reply.

[Reverend Jim]

@Ancient_Dragon - Thanks for the link. That's very interesting reading. Hete's one for you on the NRA

To summarize:

The NRA has blocked all attempts to close a loophole that allows guns to be sold at gun shows without background checks despite the fact that 69% of NRA members are in favour of such a law.

People on the US terror watch list can legally purchase guns and explosives. The NRA opposes enacting more restrictive measures even though 82% of NRA members are in favour of such restrictions.

The NRA is opposed to various agencies sharing data which would make it easier for them to get to the bottom of how guns came to be used in a crime even though 69% of NRA members are in fovour of inter-agency sharing.

The NRA is opposed to any law requiring gun owners to report lost or stolen guns to the police even though 78% of NRA members are in favour of such reporting laws.

And why? I suppose the fact that much of the money that the NRA gets is from the people who profit from these loopholes and this money, in turn, is used to fund re-election campaigns. Money talks.

Now let me say something about your system that I like. Here in Winnipeg, the police have arrested what they believe is a serial killer. They are aware of three recent killings and are trying to link him to others. One thing that shocks me in particular is that between 1974 and now he has had 99 convictions for various crimes. Under your system he would have been locked up for good as a career criminal long before he had committed most of those crimes. Here in Canada the attitude of the courts seems to be to apply a slap on the wrist and to really really believe that this time he is really sorry and won't do it again. That offends me. I wish our judges and politicians would "grow a pair", lock up these people and throw away the key.

[Ancient Dragon]

That's another thing you both have in common "persistence"

No, its more common with computer programmers.

[Reverend Jim]

I live in Illinois -- two of the last three governors are in prison right now for curruption

I wish we could do that to a few of our elected officials. We had one recently (Bev Oda) was caught altering documents. At first she denied this (in front of Parliament), but then admitted what she had done. Surprisingly (or not if you know Stephen Harper) she did not lose her cabinet post. Nor was she asked to resign. It was only after sticking the taxpayer for a few thousand in charges ($16 orange juice, limo, ultra-posh hotel) while attending a conference on child poverty that her leader cried "enough".

Cretien walked after being at the centre of a sponsorship scandal. Mulroney skirted on the Air-Bus scandal.

Most likely because most of Canada is frozen wasteland

We actually do have some parts that are quite nice. At least at times ;-) It just seems colder because we are on Celcius.

[HiHe]

People that buy guns should first pass a mental competency test, and so should Politicians.

[Ancient Dragon]

People that buy guns should first pass a mental competency test

Why? How is that any different than people who buy table knives? or hunting knives? or baseball bats? All of those can kill people.

[Reverend Jim]

As my father used to say, there is a difference between scratching your a$$ and ripping it to shreds. How many people could the shooter in Aurora have killed if he had gone in with a knife instead of the arsenal he was in fact packing? Are you seriously trying to equate a hunting knife or baseball bat with a .233 semi-automatic AR-15 rifle loaded with a 100 round clip?

[MosaicFuneral]

Perhaps we should ban my gun. It commits genocide in the realm of billions each time its fired.

[Reverend Jim]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I understand the significance of the gun as phallic symbol but you lost me with the comment

It commits genocide in the realm of billions each time its fired

The scene, by the way, was from "Full Metal Jacket" from Stanley Kubrick.

[Ancient Dragon]

Are you seriously trying to equate a hunting knife or baseball bat with a .233 semi-automatic AR-15 rifle loaded with a 100 round clip?

The point was that there are many ways to kill someone, not just with guns. There is no point in banning guns because people will always find other ways to kill other people. I am in favor of banning certain kinds of guns but not all guns of all types. Here in USA it would not be possible to ban private gun ownership without a constitutional amendment, and the likelyhood of that happening is slim to none.

[Reverend Jim]

In Canada we don't ban all types of guns. We also don't ban private gun ownership. And we don't have near the problem you do.

The point was that there are many ways to kill someone, not just with guns.

Of course this is correct. However that argument leads to an anything goes mentality. That's the trouble with the "slippery slope" argument. It works both ways. We just can't seem to agree on what constitutes "reasonable limits".

[MosaicFuneral]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Just intjecting with some crude humor, as this thread is just one of the many I've been in or a conversation I've had several times this week. Kind-of getting tired of it is all.

[Reverend Jim]

If you are getting tired of it then don't read it. I get the feeling it's kind of running out of steam anyway.

Just intjecting with some crude humor

I can't imagine any topic that would be less appropriate to inject humour into.