Oops! BrianSmall - for some reason, I kept reading that as BrainSmall and I could not understand why anyone would call themselves that??

Thank you for posting your beliefs. There were some things in there I agree with and some things that I disagree with, but there is nothing to argue about. Beliefs require no proof nor any dis-proofs - they are just what they are.

I never mean to be snide and condescending. I'm blunt by nature, what's the point otherwise? Say it, or shut up about it, that's me. But I don't wish to alienate or offend.

On the other hand, I live surrounded by insanity and have to wonder if it's them or me. After all, I am the one, reasoned or not, who seems a poor fit to the process going on around me, while others don't seem to notice, or, more precisely, don't often see or discuss it in my terms.

It's hard to know where to start when there really isn't a lot of common ground between my thinking and that of the group I encounter.

Human nature being what it is, (without needing to think about it,) people know myriad tricks to sabatoge you when they don't want to hear what you're saying. I am not exempt from this learned behavior, it is part of our survival mechanism. It (at least) helps us to focus on Our personal path rather than get off course for each new thought that comes along.

While we are young and feel a need to defend ourselves without knowing why, this process serves its purpose, particularly in a cut throat world where it's every man for himself.

But it does not ultimately work in our favor. As we grow older and more reasoned, this ingrained behavior works against further developement.

When ones ideas go against the common grain, there is no easy way to bring attention to them, particularly when the audience has an investment in their beliefs. Which is the case, most peoples sense of self and process is (of course) wrapped up in their beliefs, so any threat to their beliefs is a threat to them. Of course they fight.

But when one no longer places great import on ones rigid set of beliefs one can get on with the process of really searching for truth.

Well there are beliefs, then there is reasoning. We can agree that certain behaviors occur, but not necessarily as to what they mean.

I don't think it's a matter having the final say (or being right) but of encountering new thoughts and perspectives in order to flush out wrong thinking within ourselves. Without this, what are we?

Only too true - you can only look at a watch for so long, guessing at how it works, before you have to open it up and look.

Well, GJ, (and all) it's been fun. I'm gone for the weekend.

@Christina....if God wanted us to go to heaven...why did he bother create the earth?

This thread just won't die. *flogs dead horse*

God originally diddn't want us to end up in heaven hence the garden of eden which pretty much was heaven until Adam and even messed up.

Zandiago brings up a good point. Lasher, that makes no logical sense whatsoever. Why would a god create this world as an intermediary? What would be the purpose? Why not just create people in heaven?

Better yet.. Why create us at all?

Nothing is ever really mentioned about his reason for creating us. In fact there is alot not known about why he has done anything in a particular way. The whole basis of a christians faith is trusting that he knows what he is doing. Who knows maybe it was a bet between two rival "Gods" about who could create the better universe.

As i said before however the original plan was not to create man to end up in heaven. Really there is no proper mention of heaven being an actual place until well after the first sin.

Another explanition could be that the heaven is question does not exist yet. If you read through revalation and the second coming of Jesus it talks about the creation of a new heaven.

If there is to be a new one...there must have been an old one?