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The Dude
Nearly a Senior Poster
3,485 posts since Dec 2005
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Live Earth concert? What the heck is that?
joshSCH
Industrious Poster
4,864 posts since Jul 2005
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hm.. Well I tend to not pay attention to stuff that liberals organize :p
joshSCH
Industrious Poster
4,864 posts since Jul 2005
Reputation Points: 1,315
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Hell no. I wouldn't vote for him ;)
joshSCH
Industrious Poster
4,864 posts since Jul 2005
Reputation Points: 1,315
Solved Threads: 10
Well, you have to wonder how much different things would have been these past 7 years if the courts hadn't appointed Bush in the 2000 election. Gore won the popular vote.
Ezzaral
Posting Genius
15,985 posts since May 2007
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Why wonder how things would be different? We have no clue what Gore would have done. No use in questioning the past like that.. nothing can be done.
joshSCH
Industrious Poster
4,864 posts since Jul 2005
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Popular vote has never been used to determine an election in this country.
Yes, I am aware of that fact, thank you. We still cling to an out-dated, gerrymandered electoral college system. Gore nearly won in that system as well and the circus that ensued in Florida demonstrates just how screwed up our election process can become. At the very least, electoral votes should remain intact and not be all thrown in to the majority winner of the state, as most still do. That is blatantly ignoring the voting will of the population.
I think Bush's demagogic abuse of power is criminal and our nation will pay for it for a long time to come. Obviously we have no way to know how Gore would have fared overall, but I doubt that he would have gotten us to this sorry state of national standing that Bush and his cronys have wrought.
Also, motorcade or none, at least Gore is bringing attention to some areas of environmental and energy responsibility that have been naively ignored for decades. I certainly won't defend him as a role model for his own message and the man with all the answers, but his work does have value in that at least people are paying attention.
Ezzaral
Posting Genius
15,985 posts since May 2007
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Yes, I agree the electoral college should definitely be changed. It truly tends to make people's votes not count at all unless they live in a 'close call' state. For example, it wouldn't matter if all the Texan democrats voted or not, Texas would remain dark red ;)
Nearly every President has expanded the power of the executive during times of war..
joshSCH
Industrious Poster
4,864 posts since Jul 2005
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Nearly every President has expanded the power of the executive during times of war..
Of course - fear, nationalism, and guilt are a great platform from which to shove whatever you want down the populace's collective throat.
Ezzaral
Posting Genius
15,985 posts since May 2007
Reputation Points: 3,250
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Yes, I am aware of that fact, thank you. We still cling to an out-dated, gerrymandered electoral college system. Gore nearly won in that system as well and the circus that ensued in Florida demonstrates just how screwed up our election process can become. At the very least, electoral votes should remain intact and not be all thrown in to the majority winner of the state, as most still do. That is blatantly ignoring the voting will of the population.
Although I tried to take this stance once, I realized there is a reason for the current system.
Dave Sinkula
long time no c
5,058 posts since Apr 2004
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Although I tried to take this stance once, I realized there is a reason for the current system.
I agree there are reasons, but I still believe that proportional vote distribution of the electors would be preferable to the all-in system.
Ezzaral
Posting Genius
15,985 posts since May 2007
Reputation Points: 3,250
Solved Threads: 846
Although I tried to take this stance once, I realized there is a reason for the current system.
Reasons for an electoral college? It was originally created to 'protect' the people by giving the real voting power to the elect. The creators of the electoral college did not believe that the common man was intelligent enough to choose a good leader, and thus, this system was put in place. I see no pros to this system.. other than the fact that it's an age old tradition of American democracy. However, there are many cons with this system. For one, the elect can vote for whomever they choose regardless of what the people say. Also, it only counts one vote from each state.. I'm all for just using the popular vote. Why the hell have some complex electoral college? However, if people want to keep the electoral college then at least tweak it a bit to make the democratic process more- well, democratic.
joshSCH
Industrious Poster
4,864 posts since Jul 2005
Reputation Points: 1,315
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I agree there are reasons, but I still believe that proportional vote distribution of the electors would be preferable to the all-in system.
I once considered the Maine-Nebraska method . If that was the case in 2000, the result was Bush 288, Gore 249 .
The Proportional vote I think is horrible because of the handling of fractional electors. With it, I'd challenge any half dozen people here to try to produce the scenario, the set of rules that were used in the Wikipedia article that calls it Bush 263, Gore 269, Nader 6.
You can get the source data here .
Reasons for an electoral college? It was originally created to 'protect' the people by giving the real voting power to the elect. The creators of the electoral college did not believe that the common man was intelligent enough to choose a good leader, and thus, this system was put in place. I see no pros to this system.. other than the fact that it's an age old tradition of American democracy. However, there are many cons with this system. For one, the elect can vote for whomever they choose regardless of what the people say. Also, it only counts one vote from each state.. I'm all for just using the popular vote. Why the hell have some complex electoral college? However, if people want to keep the electoral college then at least tweak it a bit to make the democratic process more- well, democratic.
You Josh, should read the whole article . ;)
Dave Sinkula
long time no c
5,058 posts since Apr 2004
Reputation Points: 2,780
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