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Feb 15th, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by Nichito ...
i think it's time to give this thread a little bump... to bring some interesting discussions with new members of the community... hehe

somewhere back in the thread i read a comment saying something like this...
or something like that...

ok... according to catholic teachings, God did create mankind at his image... but He also gave mankind something called "free will" so we do whatever we feel like doing... He did not make that flaw in human design... mankind took the wrong way in that aspect...

NOTE: i clearly stated "according to catholic teachings" so don't come up over me telling me i'm an idiot or anything... (it has happened a lot in this thread with a lot of other people)
Yeah, but the gays claim that they are not gay by choice.. but rather, they are born gay.

Aside from the 'flaw' of being gay, what about being born mentally handicapped? Or physically handicapped? There are many flaws with the human body.. We develop back problems later in life do to us walking upright on two legs.. Our veins/arteries are not positioned for optimal survival (especially those in the neck). And many, many more. Humans are by nature, flawed. Thus, it follows that a god either created us to be flawed, or does not exist.
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joshSCH is offline Offline
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Feb 15th, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

Well in that simplistic argument you're probably right.
However. What you're missing out on is that if God created mankind, and if they were created in his image to remain as his image one should live in his presence, and it would only be in continually living there that one could hope to be like him, which would be what you were talking about. You living in Eden? Like learning to play like Hendrix. Best person to learn off would be Hendrix. And to 'keep up' with the trends, you'd really have to live with him.
Your free will point is interesting.
Last edited by twomers; Feb 15th, 2008 at 5:46 pm.
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Feb 17th, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

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Dave Sinkula is offline Offline
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Feb 20th, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

I can't help myself - there is just so much bogosity in this thread and someone needs to clear up a few things.

HIV/AIDS - this is not a 'gay' disease, was not started in the gay community, is not god's punishment for anything. Of the worlds populations that have HIV/AIDS, 80% is transmitted through heterosexual contact. If you are going to use the bible, remember "judge not lest ye be judged"

gayness is not a choice - if it were a choice why would all those Republicans keep getting caught in bathrooms and those preachers keep getting outed??

I can understand persons who do not like gays but wtf! Hating gays!? This is beyond the ability of this Montana country boy to understand. Hating everything about them is beyond the ken. You don't like their music? You don't like their books? you don't like their art? you don't like ???

God created mankind (your words) he created gays, he created blacks, he created everything including your hate so I guess it is alright for you to hate. do you take your hate to the streets? do you endorse the beating of gays? do you endorse that creepy guy who goes to military funerals and shouts that the soldier died because god hates gays? What does your hate do for you? What does your hate do for the world?

That creepy reverend was going to come here to Seattle to scream and spout his hate at a funeral and folks got together and a held a hate-a-thon for the Rainbow community. I personally committed $15 per minute that the creep ranted -- I believe that if the creep had shown up donations would have reached about $1000 per minute of his hate speech. He backed out and did not show up (heh,heh).

One thing that should be corrected - there is no relationship between pedophilia and homosexuality. Pedophilia is about age and the gender is not as impoortant (the abuse of male children by males gets way more press than others) whereas homosexuality is about the gender and the age is not that important.

Anyway, just thought I would jump in and stimulate some discussion
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GrimJack is offline Offline
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Feb 20th, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by GrimJack ...
HIV/AIDS - this is not a 'gay' disease, was not started in the gay community, is not god's punishment for anything. Of the worlds populations that have HIV/AIDS, 80% is transmitted through heterosexual contact.
I guess someone needs to learn to read...

If you would have read the whole thing, you would have noticed this point was already discussed...
Quote ...
gayness is not a choice - if it were a choice why would all those Republicans keep getting caught in bathrooms and those preachers keep getting outed??
wtf??

Quote ...
I can understand persons who do not like gays but wtf! Hating gays!? This is beyond the ability of this Montana country boy to understand. Hating everything about them is beyond the ken. You don't like their music? You don't like their books? you don't like their art? you don't like ???

God created mankind (your words) he created gays, he created blacks, he created everything including your hate so I guess it is alright for you to hate. do you take your hate to the streets? do you endorse the beating of gays? do you endorse that creepy guy who goes to military funerals and shouts that the soldier died because god hates gays? What does your hate do for you? What does your hate do for the world?

That creepy reverend was going to come here to Seattle to scream and spout his hate at a funeral and folks got together and a held a hate-a-thon for the Rainbow community. I personally committed $15 per minute that the creep ranted -- I believe that if the creep had shown up donations would have reached about $1000 per minute of his hate speech. He backed out and did not show up (heh,heh).
i insist... if you will comment on a thread, you should read the whole thing first... ok?

I already corrected myself... i underestimated the value of the word hate around here... so i already stated... i don't hate gays... i dislike them
Last edited by Nichito; Feb 20th, 2008 at 4:12 am.
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Nichito is offline Offline
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Feb 20th, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by GrimJack ...
HIV/AIDS - this is not a 'gay' disease, was not started in the gay community, is not god's punishment for anything. Of the worlds populations that have HIV/AIDS, 80% is transmitted through heterosexual contact. If you are going to use the bible, remember "judge not lest ye be judged"
Would you please cite your proof for the numeric statistic? It was my understanding that, in the United States at least, ~90%+ of occurences did appear among the somewhat overlapping groups of homosexuals and shared-needle drug addicts, and I would like to know where you get your statistics from.

As to your bringing up the scriptures,

Quote originally posted by Matthew 7 ...
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
To my mind, this always meant not judging others by a standard other than the one you hold yourself accountable to.


Or perhaps you refer to the phrasing of the gospel of Luke:

Quote originally posted by Luke 6 ...
37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
As far as I can tell, same logic.

And the same One who said those, also made it clear later on, in a somewhat different context, that judgement is meant to be excercised properly.

Quote originally posted by John 7 ...
24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Would not warning someone that they are engaging in destructive behaviour be a righteous judgement? Or would you consider it to be more appropriate to let them destroy themselves?


Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by GrimJack ...
gayness is not a choice - if it were a choice why would all those Republicans keep getting caught in bathrooms and those preachers keep getting outed??
Having to deal with homosexual tendencies may be something a person has no choice over. Being a homosexual, however, is; the person has chosen to give in to those tendencies rather than resist them.

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by GrimJack ...
I can understand persons who do not like gays but wtf! Hating gays!? This is beyond the ability of this Montana country boy to understand. Hating everything about them is beyond the ken. You don't like their music? You don't like their books? you don't like their art? you don't like ???
For myself, I do not hate them. I pity them, and I sorrow for them, but I do not hate them.

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by GrimJack ...
God created mankind (your words) he created gays, he created blacks, he created everything including your hate so I guess it is alright for you to hate. do you take your hate to the streets? do you endorse the beating of gays? do you endorse that creepy guy who goes to military funerals and shouts that the soldier died because god hates gays?
If I were to discover someone doing so, I would attempt to dissuade them. If I could not, then I would be willing to provide protection for the person being beaten, with my own life if necessary. This does not, however, mean that I endorse or approve of their choice, and I would do my best to make that clear if I should survive the attempt intact enough to speak or write.

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by GrimJack ...
One thing that should be corrected - there is no relationship between pedophilia and homosexuality. Pedophilia is about age and the gender is not as impoortant (the abuse of male children by males gets way more press than others) whereas homosexuality is about the gender and the age is not that important.
One author I have read made reference to a survey which seemed to prove otherwise. I have not yet tracked down the survey (I will endeavor to do so), but the statistics he quoted were interesting. According to him, in a survey of pedophilic men the ratio was 7.5-1 for homosexuals and small boys vs. heterosexuals and small girls. This would seem to indicate one of two things, either of which would stand somewhat against your statement. Either A), homosexuals are truly more likely to engage in pedophilic activities than heterosexuals are, or B) homosexuals are far more willing to openly talk about their engaging in such activities.

Again, I will try to find the original survey and verify the data.
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Feb 23rd, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

My views on homosexuality:

Religiously - it is wrong in the eyes of God and condemnable (evidence can be found in both the Old Testament and New).

Personally (don't hate me...) - it's completely unnatural. I do not believe it is genetic and unless someone can prove to me 100% that it is, I will contine to think that it is just some absurd theory that helps homosexuals sleep better at night. I believe it is solely based on decision. I've had a couple gay friends during high school and one of them actually told me that he didn't even believe that people were born that way. It's the same as someone choosing who they want to date or marry. I do believe that hormones can influence a person's decision, but that doesn't mean they were born that way. Homosexuality is simply just a chosen lifestyle and nothing else.
That's pretty good 100% proof, eh? Heh, heh that cracks me up, there is nothing that can be proved 100% and you are basing you belief about homosexuality on the word of a teenager - have you thought about a career in standup? And you are 100% sure that homosexuality is a choice and nothing else?! See this would be easier if you were a guy but for a guy there is a very simple test - what makes you hard. If women don't make you hard how the heck can it be a choice?
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Feb 23rd, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

Disease is pretty much the same as sickness, right? Because that's what came into the world along with sin. Insects - yeah I'm pretty sure God made those. Gays - like I said... they chose to be homosexual. The scientists have yet to prove if it is indeed genetic or not. God created Adam and Eve, that's why only a man and woman can reproduce.
Adam and Eve - so we are all the products of incest, is that correct? Adam and Eve had kids and their kids had kids but they are all related and we are all related, kool.
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GrimJack is offline Offline
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Feb 23rd, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

You're asking the right question. Why in the world would he do that? But let's look at it this way... God 'bashes' murderers, liars, cheaters, thieves, adulterers, etc. even though they are His creation also.

Murderers choose to kill, liars choose to lie, cheaters choose to cheat, adulterers choose to commit adultery... gays choose to be homosexual. God created these individuals, but they chose their lifestyle.
This is probably one of the worst chains of logic I have seen in a long time - unless you are still practicing your stand-up routine
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Feb 23rd, 2008
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Re: lets talk about it...

Click to Expand / Collapse  Quote originally posted by GrimJack ...
Adam and Eve - so we are all the products of incest, is that correct? Adam and Eve had kids and their kids had kids but they are all related and we are all related, kool.
And a second time with Noah's family.
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Dave Sinkula is offline Offline
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