Illegal Immigration

[joshSCH]

Illegal Immigration.. a huge political and social problem that plagues many countries. This thread is dedicated to thoughts on this issue, and how we can best solve this problem.

As an American, no a Texan, I have experienced the affects of illegal immigration. Some people do not think it's such a big deal, but I beg to differ. For one, there are millions of illegals (mostly mexican) living in our country today. These people unlawfully cross into our borders.. and the liberals grant them all kinds of special rights. It seems like once they arrive then it's like paradise. Illegals get all kinds of government aid yet they contribute nothing to society. These people are not protected by our constitution and cannot vote, so why are politicians having such a hard time kicking them out?? The illegal mexicans mostly consist of the poor, uneducated portion of the mexican population. They run across our borders with nothing.. not even knowledge of the english language.. then they expect us to provide them with shelter, clothing, an education, health care, etc. Why the hell should we, the American taxpayers, pay for these criminals? It's wrong!

I'm not sure how it is in other countries, but I am sick and tired of having a bunch of low-life criminals enter our country so easily. They are ultimately a strain on our economy and education systems.. they are nothing more than viruses.. viruses that affect our country, and our own politicians wont even stand-up for us! They demand the use of public services (police, firefighters, recreation, etc.) yet they pay no taxes themselves. They cannot be denied into the ER, and thus receive free health care even though they have no insurance. Some politicians complain that the current immigration bill is too strong? Too strong?! Hell, it's way too weak. I believe we need to just throw them all out. They are here illegally! They take our money, services, and time.. yet they don't repay us at all.
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/22118
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/10/politics/10health.html

Also, I hate going places and seeing spanish all over the damn place.. Why do we give-in, and write things in spanish instead of forcing them to learn English? This is the United States of America, and our language is English! If you can't speak English, then you shouldn't be allowed to become a permanent resident.. I am also tired of seeing mexicans parading about talking about how much better mexico is than America.. If you like it so damn much, then get the hell out of here!!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/politics/main3442014.shtml

A short story: My friend's mom was driving home from work when a van hit her from behind. It was a van full of 7-8 illegal mexicans who didn't have drivers license. After the wreck, they all took off running.. a few bystanders helped her track them down, and they called the authorities. However, the police said that there was nothing that they could since they were illegals.. So what happened? The police let the mexicans walk away, and my friend's mom had to pay for the damages herself.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/politics/main3442014.shtml

[Infarction]

I agree that illegal immigration is a problem, and that the immigrants tend to receive a lot more benefits than they should, but I don't know of a perfect solution. Not even a good solution, really...

[jwenting]

The perfect solution is summary execution of anyone helping them knowingly...
As it is nobody gets punished for helping or being an illegal immigrant, so lots of people give them all kinds of things.

They get jobs (the few illegals that want to work that is, most just want to get easy money from crime) because they're cheaper than citizens or legal guest workers.
They get free healthcare because hospitals aren't allowed to deny help to them (stupid of course, by law in many places hospitals are allowed to treat illegals for free at the expense of paying customers).
They get free education for their kids for the same reason.

Effectively the government makes it pay to be an illegal alien. They don't pay taxes, don't pay for healthcare, education, or pretty much anything else, and they can have decent incomes without fear of reprisals.

The perfect solution is to set an example of a good number of them. Load them on board some C-130s, fly out a thousand miles over the Pacific, and dump them overboard without life jackets.
Film the entire thing and air it on public TV in Mexico and the US.
Give the rest of them a stern warning. Leave the country in 24 hours or face the same treatment.
12 hours later crack down hard on anyone sheltering or helping them, and set them all to build that wall at the Mexican border. But make that wall a decent one. Electrified barbed wire, pungi sticks, aligator ditches, minefields, make it tall (to prevent scaling it), make it go down deep (to prevent tunelling under it), guard towers with automatic guns every few hundred yards shooting at anything that moves that's the size of a human being.
When it's done dump all the perps on the Mexican side.

[joshSCH]

The perfect solution is summary execution of anyone helping them knowingly... As it is nobody gets punished for helping or being an illegal immigrant, so lots of people give them all kinds of things.

They get jobs (the few illegals that want to work that is, most just want to get easy money from crime) because they're cheaper than citizens or legal guest workers. They get free healthcare because hospitals aren't allowed to deny help to them (stupid of course, by law in many places hospitals are allowed to treat illegals for free at the expense of paying customers). They get free education for their kids for the same reason.

Effectively the government makes it pay to be an illegal alien. They don't pay taxes, don't pay for healthcare, education, or pretty much anything else, and they can have decent incomes without fear of reprisals.

The perfect solution is to set an example of a good number of them. Load them on board some C-130s, fly out a thousand miles over the Pacific, and dump them overboard without life jackets. Film the entire thing and air it on public TV in Mexico and the US. Give the rest of them a stern warning. Leave the country in 24 hours or face the same treatment. 12 hours later crack down hard on anyone sheltering or helping them, and set them all to build that wall at the Mexican border. But make that wall a decent one. Electrified barbed wire, pungi sticks, aligator ditches, minefields, make it tall (to prevent scaling it), make it go down deep (to prevent tunelling under it), guard towers with automatic guns every few hundred yards shooting at anything that moves that's the size of a human being. When it's done dump all the perps on the Mexican side.

That is the perfect solution!! I am e-mailing my representative to the house, and my senators right now!

[Sturm]

I'm also in favor of this solution. What America really needs is some firm legislation.

The classic problem that every society faces is that the poor (therefore the unintelligent) reproduce the most...

[bumsfeld]

In France we have the problem too. I only wish we could get Mexican workers. At least they are christians.

The first generation of guest or illegal workers work very hard, but their numerous offspring is not.

I am not very sure, if a hate inspiring thread like that belongs into the "Geeks' Lounge"?

[Sturm]

> At least they are christians.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? They're criminal trash that reproduce like rabbits.

>The first generation of guest or illegal workers work very hard, but their numerous offspring is not.

I suppose robbing stores and joining gangs is your definition of "working hard"?

[jbennet]

There are a lot of immigrants (legal and illegal) in the UK and i agree with bumsfeld, i know what he means. France has lots of problems with illegals (and when they kick them out they come over to england through the chunnel and the channel)

I am not very sure, if a hate inspiring thread like that belongs into the "Geeks' Lounge"?

Personally i wouldnt describe it as hate , its more of a discussion - "This thread is dedicated to thoughts on this issue, and how we can best solve this problem." - about says it all.

Most legal immigrants do help in a positive way (e.g a polish plumber is like half the price of an english plumber and doesnt rip you off) and the idea of "immigrants stealing british jobs" is bullshit as he jobs most immigrants do are things which we would rather not do (we jus stay at home on the dole and be a drain on society instead) or jobs that need workers urgently.

So, in conclusion i have no peoblem with legal immigrants, only illegal ones. They shoukld be sent home. Same goes for asylum seekers.I suppose robbing stores and joining gangs is your definition of "working hard"?

Thats only a small minority (a few %). and the same thing is done by nationals. Dont lay it all on immigrants.

I think the reason the UK is the immigration capital of europe is that we have a fairly lax policy on it (waaaaaaay less than the us - hell, even i would find it really hard to emigrate to the US) and we have a good social system.

[bumsfeld]

There are plenty of natives around that rob your stores and join gangs. On the other hand, who would keep your lawn looking nice, cook your food, wash your clothes, build your roads and houses?

[Lardmeister]

My friends in Mexico tell me that this is the way they get taught about Mexican history. In 1848 the US stole about half the territory of Mexico (California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, half of Texas) when the Mexicans were still reeling from their war of independence from Spain.

I guess war booty is war booty, and you shouldn't cry over spilled milk. I just thought it would be interesting to let you know how the Mexicans feel deep down about coming across the border.

[scru]

St. Vincent doesn't have illegal immigrants.

Everybody wants to LEAVE St. Vincent!

You should be flattered that so many people are desperate to come to your country, that they would risk their lives and voyage over miles of sea in a stupid little boat (Cubans).

Don't get me wrong; I could definitely see where the problems are, but you have to think of ways to fix them without being so brute about the whole thing.

Here's my take: The mexicans love your country so much more than their own that they will risk so much to get across your border and work for near nothing doing some of the things that most of you wouldn't think twice about doing.

Maybe things really suck in Mexico.

Maybe you should think about doing something about that. And again, not to strawman anybody, but for those who might think it's not their problem; it is. We are all human beings. We have to look out for one another, because America has a lot of enemies and something may happen--who will you turn to then?

[Infarction]

Regardless of the conditions in Mexico or elsewhere, there is a legal process for emigrating to the US. If they intentionally violate the system that is in place, they are criminals and should be treated as such. Maybe I'm a mean-hearted #######, but life ain't fair. Human nature forbids that.

[joshSCH]

My friends in Mexico tell me that this is the way they get taught about Mexican history. In 1848 the US stole about half the territory of Mexico (California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, half of Texas) when the Mexicans were still reeling from their war of independence from Spain.

I guess war booty is war booty, and you shouldn't cry over spilled milk. I just thought it would be interesting to let you know how the Mexicans feel deep down about coming across the border.

Yeah, that's complete bull shit. We won that war fair and square.. and if we wanted to we could beat the hell out of mexico again.. their country is crap. Mexico is one of the shittiest countries in the western hemisphere. Their government is corrupted, guerrillas own the country, the police are corrupt, the economy is in shambles, the people are dirt poor, and criminals run amok untouched.Regardless of the conditions in Mexico or elsewhere, there is a legal process for emigrating to the US. If they intentionally violate the system that is in place, they are criminals and should be treated as such. Maybe I'm a mean-hearted #######, but life ain't fair. Human nature forbids that. I agree completely. Other people have to go through a rigorous process to gain U.S. citizenship.. it is not fair at all to simply allow these illegals to become citizens simply because they made it across the border. How is that fair? My ancestors who came from Germany had a difficult time immigrating here.. but, they went through legally. Our current amnesty for illegals is not fair to the current U.S. citizens, and it sure as hell isn't fair to other immigrants who actually go through the legal process.

[jbennet]

their country is crap. Their government is corrupted, the police are corrupt, the economy is in shambles, people are dirt poor, and criminals run amok untouched

sounds a bit like america then doesnt itHow is that fair? My ancestors who came from Germany had a difficult time immigrating here.. but, they went through legally. Our current amnesty for illegals is not fair to the current U.S. citizens, and it sure as hell isn't fair to other immigrants who actually go through the legal process.

You ever seen a european get a green card? no? thats because its basically impossible, your system is too strict.

[Infarction]

You ever seen a european get a green card? no? thats because its basically impossible, your system is too strict.

While the topic doesn't come up too often in my circles, I do have a few friends who've gotten their US citizenships. It's obviously possible, it's just an annoyingly long process with a lot of red tape. But that's our choice to make it that way, and other people's choice to put up with it. Like I said, life isn't fair. And I should have added that it's far from ideal too.

[Ancient Dragon]

If USA is such a terrible country why is it that so many people try to get here? We have to make getting citizenship and green cards difficult because we don't have room to accommodate everyone on earth. We must take the Me First attitude in this case.

[scru]

Nobody is saying that you should accomodate everyone. I'm saying just the opposite:

Why not help make some of these places better places to be? One poster said it himself; mexico is crap.

Don't think that the rest of the world doesn't care about immigration; people are leaving our soils for greener grass and in many cases never look back. I'm sure the respective countries will be glad to help you get them to the aforementioned point.

[Lardmeister]

Most Mexican illegal immigrants don't jump over a tall border fence or walk miles throught the hot desert (that is just TV dramatic journalism), they simply drive to the US to visit friends/family and then stay.

[EnderX]

Nobody is saying that you should accomodate everyone. I'm saying just the opposite:

Why not help make some of these places better places to be? One poster said it himself; mexico is crap.

Don't think that the rest of the world doesn't care about immigration; people are leaving our soils for greener grass and in many cases never look back. I'm sure the respective countries will be glad to help you get them to the aforementioned point.

We have enough problems dealing with welfare in our own country. What you just described is putting entire other countries on some form of international welfare role.

Seriously, if the US is trying to make the place better, then the US will be doing the work, and the other countries are likely to (note:likely to, not guaranteed to) simply let the US do so, without attempting to aid our efforts. Why should they, if the US is doing it for them?

[TheNNS]

>It seems like once they arrive then it's like paradise.
in what way? they have to work so hard for everything, life is really hard fro them.
>yet they contribute nothing to society
they take all the jobs lazy americans don't want. they come here to work, and amercians are here to be lazy.
>Why the hell should we, the American taxpayers, pay for these criminals? It's wrong!
they are NOT CRIMINALS. they're looking for a better life in the land of opportunity.
>Why the hell should we, the American taxpayers, pay for these criminals? It's wrong!
and how the heck do you propose we do that?
>I am also tired of seeing mexicans parading about talking about how much better mexico is than America.. If you like it so damn much, then get the hell out of here!!

so you speak spanish too? i thought they didn't speak english. i've never heard a mexican say that.

about your story, how many americans do that? i've heard of so many people, non mexicans, hit and run. my friend was longboarding, got hit by a car, and was injured pretty bad. the car that hit him just took off.

Don't you think that's how the native americans felt when we invaded their lands? i've always thought that this was the land of opportunity, but i guess it's canada. i know there are some illegal immigrants that are criminals, and shouldn't be here, but a lot of them are just looking for a better life, for jobs, and they actually help the economy. because they're illegal, farm owners can pay them less than minimum wage, which allows cheaper labor. and a lot of them work here a few years and go back to their countries, so it's not like they'll be permanent residents.
if i were you josh, i'd shut up and put myself in their shoes.