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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England (LOL)
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s.woodman mentioned "using one to prove the other " - this is a straw man argument but he incorrectly called it a oxymoron
TRY MY SUGGESTIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK!
james.bennet1@ntlworld.com
james.bennet1@ntlworld.com
I believe you misinterpret the meaning of strawman arguments. He was talking about using physical evidence and experiments (or so I gathered), to prove/disprove the existance of God. A strawman makes an imitation of the subject which is significantly lacking in similarity, calls on a trait of that object and degrades the virtue of the former by slandering the latter.
"Mr Kitty, you have to live in the attic now. Here, write a diary."
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I am the Walrus!
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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using one to prove the other is an oxymoron.
The string theory.....I like to see that someone else is familiar with this.
How about anti-matter, are you familiar with this as well.
Scince is what intrigues me, though i have little time to devote to learning when putting food on the table for my family is so hard. My plans were to be a genetic engineer and **** off all the religious types.
If only ignorance were painful....
GrimJack
AMD a64 3200+ 939
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GrimJack
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Many different kinds of ways of appearing to win an argument without actually doing so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
If you dance barefoot on the broken glass of undefined behaviour, you've got to expect the occasional cut.
Do not PM me for help; You'll be ignored, or told to learn to read.
Do not ask me if I'm muslim - I'm not. Nor do I care about yours or anyone else's mysticism. Religion is a matrix, take the RED PILL.
Do not PM me for help; You'll be ignored, or told to learn to read.
Do not ask me if I'm muslim - I'm not. Nor do I care about yours or anyone else's mysticism. Religion is a matrix, take the RED PILL.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I believe G-d created the Universe and has designed evolution as a method to advance biological species.
> I believe G-d created the Universe
Which one?
Oh so many to choose from, whichever one will I deny the existence of next? Man, this could turn out to be a full-time job. Or perhaps do as all other faith-heads do and deny the existence of all of them, except the one which was spoon-fed from child-hood.
The only difference between you and me is that I stopped at zero, and you for some reason stopped at 1. Just a little push and your mind will be free. Mmm, religion is the matrix, now there's a thought.
Once so many, now so few. Looks like in evolutionary terms, the "faith" meme is dying, soon to be extinct. We can only hope, then perhaps all the killings of one another "in god's name" will end. Is it going to take some zealot with a nuke to kill a few million before you realise just how insidious it is? Probably not, too many other zealots vested in perpertuating the misery with calls for "revenge" rather than walking away from the whole idea with "no longer in my name will you kill other humans".
One man's religion is another man's belly laugh.
> advance biological species.
Evolution doesn't advance, it adapts. Sometimes this can make species simpler. It doesn't always result in increases in complexity.
Like the evolutionary adaptation of an energy intensive large brain (that's us), that came so close to being ended as a bad idea 70,000 years ago. Destiny and design didn't bring us here, just mutation, selection and a large slice of luck. A couple more bad summers all those years ago, and it would have been "thank you and good night".
> could well be just a schoolkid starting some experiment in their equivalent of a
> glass tube or petridish somewhere outside the universe
Sample message board log
<god> I've got this homework to create a universe a week ago, and I haven't started yet, and I've only got a week to go to hand it in.
<salem> go away you flunky, your urgency isn't our problem.
<god> the FAQ says mix well for 14 days (same as the assignment duration I guess), do you think it'll still work?
<salem> perhaps, but you'll need to hurry up with the big bang. Even then, you'll need to be very careful that it doesn't come out all lumpy. I've done hundreds of these, but the best I've ever managed which came out anything like right was about 9 days. Anything less than that have been various levels of disaster. You might get something, but it won't be special.
<god> Thanks, BRB
<god, 7 days later> HELP, my universe is all lumpy and there's only one tiny rock with life on it. All my classmates have universes teeming with life exploring the universe and all my lot can do is kill each other. I've only got 5 minutes to go!
<salem> *shrug*
<salem> are they still praying to you?
<god> yeah, why?
<salem> I suppose they've also figured out how to split the atom as well..
<god> huh huh....
<salem> not so good then.
<salem> *thinks*
<salem> the problem is, you just can't fix it once it's running. Your tutors will easily spot any signs that you've tampered with it, and that will just get you an 'F'. If you can find some life on any other rock (no matter how basic it is), and you can figure out an explanation to your tutor as to why the 'faith' thing is only a passing fad, then you might score a D+ or a C-.
Which one?
Oh so many to choose from, whichever one will I deny the existence of next? Man, this could turn out to be a full-time job. Or perhaps do as all other faith-heads do and deny the existence of all of them, except the one which was spoon-fed from child-hood.
The only difference between you and me is that I stopped at zero, and you for some reason stopped at 1. Just a little push and your mind will be free. Mmm, religion is the matrix, now there's a thought.
Once so many, now so few. Looks like in evolutionary terms, the "faith" meme is dying, soon to be extinct. We can only hope, then perhaps all the killings of one another "in god's name" will end. Is it going to take some zealot with a nuke to kill a few million before you realise just how insidious it is? Probably not, too many other zealots vested in perpertuating the misery with calls for "revenge" rather than walking away from the whole idea with "no longer in my name will you kill other humans".
One man's religion is another man's belly laugh.
> advance biological species.
Evolution doesn't advance, it adapts. Sometimes this can make species simpler. It doesn't always result in increases in complexity.
Like the evolutionary adaptation of an energy intensive large brain (that's us), that came so close to being ended as a bad idea 70,000 years ago. Destiny and design didn't bring us here, just mutation, selection and a large slice of luck. A couple more bad summers all those years ago, and it would have been "thank you and good night".
> could well be just a schoolkid starting some experiment in their equivalent of a
> glass tube or petridish somewhere outside the universe
Sample message board log
<god> I've got this homework to create a universe a week ago, and I haven't started yet, and I've only got a week to go to hand it in.
<salem> go away you flunky, your urgency isn't our problem.
<god> the FAQ says mix well for 14 days (same as the assignment duration I guess), do you think it'll still work?
<salem> perhaps, but you'll need to hurry up with the big bang. Even then, you'll need to be very careful that it doesn't come out all lumpy. I've done hundreds of these, but the best I've ever managed which came out anything like right was about 9 days. Anything less than that have been various levels of disaster. You might get something, but it won't be special.
<god> Thanks, BRB
<god, 7 days later> HELP, my universe is all lumpy and there's only one tiny rock with life on it. All my classmates have universes teeming with life exploring the universe and all my lot can do is kill each other. I've only got 5 minutes to go!
<salem> *shrug*
<salem> are they still praying to you?
<god> yeah, why?
<salem> I suppose they've also figured out how to split the atom as well..
<god> huh huh....
<salem> not so good then.
<salem> *thinks*
<salem> the problem is, you just can't fix it once it's running. Your tutors will easily spot any signs that you've tampered with it, and that will just get you an 'F'. If you can find some life on any other rock (no matter how basic it is), and you can figure out an explanation to your tutor as to why the 'faith' thing is only a passing fad, then you might score a D+ or a C-.
If you dance barefoot on the broken glass of undefined behaviour, you've got to expect the occasional cut.
Do not PM me for help; You'll be ignored, or told to learn to read.
Do not ask me if I'm muslim - I'm not. Nor do I care about yours or anyone else's mysticism. Religion is a matrix, take the RED PILL.
Do not PM me for help; You'll be ignored, or told to learn to read.
Do not ask me if I'm muslim - I'm not. Nor do I care about yours or anyone else's mysticism. Religion is a matrix, take the RED PILL.
>> then perhaps all the killings of one another "in god's name" will end.
Just because some people of some religions have an idea that killing "in god's name" is permissible doesn't mean they all do. Sure, most have done in the past. But don't slam them all with an extreme stereotype that is today only linked to the select few. And don't talk about history. That's what it is - history. It shouldn't be accepted or acceptable either now or then. Bad things happened, but not only religious cullings. You don't need a list. None of it should have happened, but it did. We in our high chairs of hindsight point the finger and say "that was bad. That shouldn't have happened". But you know what? I bet if we were there nothing would have changed (be it religious killings or plantations). No matter what you say people follow the crowd. I found your sample message board amusing. I didn't know you were that old!
Just because some people of some religions have an idea that killing "in god's name" is permissible doesn't mean they all do. Sure, most have done in the past. But don't slam them all with an extreme stereotype that is today only linked to the select few. And don't talk about history. That's what it is - history. It shouldn't be accepted or acceptable either now or then. Bad things happened, but not only religious cullings. You don't need a list. None of it should have happened, but it did. We in our high chairs of hindsight point the finger and say "that was bad. That shouldn't have happened". But you know what? I bet if we were there nothing would have changed (be it religious killings or plantations). No matter what you say people follow the crowd. I found your sample message board amusing. I didn't know you were that old!
Last edited by twomers : May 25th, 2008 at 9:08 am.
"Mr Kitty, you have to live in the attic now. Here, write a diary."
I am the Walrus!
I am the Walrus!
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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frankly, imho just as many people kill in the name of religion than of political belief
witchhunts v communist withhunts
holocaust v ethnic cleansing in balkans
crusades v war against e.g communists
witchhunts v communist withhunts
holocaust v ethnic cleansing in balkans
crusades v war against e.g communists
TRY MY SUGGESTIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK!
james.bennet1@ntlworld.com
james.bennet1@ntlworld.com
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