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Global warming!!
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 849
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Practically a Posting Shark
Also, I am no science expert and I certainly don't claim to be, but I know enough about it to know that if CO2 was proven to be the cause in a true experiment, then it could be reproduced and easily referenced. If the proof is there, where is it?
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
-- The documentation is inevitable, you may get away with it for a little while but eventually you too will have to do the deed.
-- The documentation is inevitable, you may get away with it for a little while but eventually you too will have to do the deed.
It can be relatively easily shown (and has been, repeatedly) that the effect of CO2 on the surface temperature of the planet is miniscule, as well as that in the past temperatures were a lot higher with lower CO2 levels and at other times far lower with higher CO2 levels.
Like the entire "the earth is heating up" farce, so the "it's all because of human released CO2" claim is a farce.
The earth at the moment (and for the last decade) has been getting slowly colder, despite rising atmospheric CO2.
And that atmospheric CO2 is rising far slower than the rise in output from human activity, indicating that there are potent natural processes at work to counteract an increase in atmospheric CO2.
That process is of course increased plant growth. In a high CO2 environment, plants grow more lushly and quickly, trapping CO2 in their tissue.
And that's very good news for a planet where there are ever more mouths to feed, as those plants can help feed those people with increased yield from farms. It's not for nothing that operators of greenhouses pump CO2 into their buildings. This is not to increase the temperature (heaters are very good at that, as are glass roofs) but to act as fertiliser to the plants. And it works.
Like the entire "the earth is heating up" farce, so the "it's all because of human released CO2" claim is a farce.
The earth at the moment (and for the last decade) has been getting slowly colder, despite rising atmospheric CO2.
And that atmospheric CO2 is rising far slower than the rise in output from human activity, indicating that there are potent natural processes at work to counteract an increase in atmospheric CO2.
That process is of course increased plant growth. In a high CO2 environment, plants grow more lushly and quickly, trapping CO2 in their tissue.
And that's very good news for a planet where there are ever more mouths to feed, as those plants can help feed those people with increased yield from farms. It's not for nothing that operators of greenhouses pump CO2 into their buildings. This is not to increase the temperature (heaters are very good at that, as are glass roofs) but to act as fertiliser to the plants. And it works.
As people are clearly allowed to attack me but I'm not allowed to defend myself, I no longer post to this site.
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Originally Posted by zeroth 
This "scientific" article is an example of the "proof" of the Theory that we are arguing against? It's conclusion, as you can plainly read in the last entry, here, I'll repeat it:
"stratospheric cooling and tropospheric warming are intimately connected"
doesn't make sense. What tropospheric warming??
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It's obvious, at least from this example, that no matter what data global warming folks consider, they are so biased that the conclusions always come out in their favor...
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Computer models can't predict future climate because we don't yet understand enough about certain processes in the atmosphere. Look closely and you'll see that most of the studies done by proper scientists offer a disclaimer somewhere in their paper stating clearly that some climactic processes are not fully understood. Can you at least agree with that statement? And if that statement is true, then a model is only predicting part of the story?
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Just because there are lots of scientists saying global warming is real does not make it so. Science does not work by consensus - that's called politics. Reproducible results are the fodder for truth. I've just shown you how greenhouse scientists have concluded that the earth is warming when accepted scientific data show both the atmosphere and ice packs exhibit cooling trends. That's science?
Where's the rant?
zeroth
I looked at the graphs that you posted; here is the same data mapped onto one grid with the timeline reversed along with some explanation of what you are looking at. Your picture does not prove or disprove anything unless you can place it in context.
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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Originally Posted by R0bb0b
GrimJack, I have read your references and the first is exactly that (http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/20c.html). It goes through some temperature statistics and some graphs and at the end assumes that you assume that CO2 is the main cause when I don't see any references to any experiment isolating CO2 as the true cause.
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When I mentioned chlorofluorocarbon it was to show a comparison of the scientific work done with it compared to the scientific work done with CO2. I can reference several articles talking about experiments that have been done with chlorofluorocarbon to prove that the ozone hole is a direct effect. I cannot find the same thing with CO2 causing global warming.
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I also read another of your articles tearing apart years of a scientist's work with a couple of graphs. (http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008...ence_16.php#mo) This is the example that I keep referencing to, hard work on one side of the argument and some graphs on the other.
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I have not seen enough proof to convince me that the world should go into a global "Project Destroy Economy" because of this. The evidence is way to premature and the cost of doing so outweighs it by several fold.
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 849
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Solved Threads: 67
Practically a Posting Shark
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Originally Posted by GrimJack
I am interested in the papers you are referencing so that I can see where in the process they were written.
Last edited by R0bb0b; Aug 18th, 2008 at 4:02 am.
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
-- The documentation is inevitable, you may get away with it for a little while but eventually you too will have to do the deed.
-- The documentation is inevitable, you may get away with it for a little while but eventually you too will have to do the deed.
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Originally Posted by R0bb0b
I am referring specifically to NOZE I in Antarctica, 1986(http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=6856609), unfortunately the real documentation is not available but it is obvious that this expedition created an extreme turn of events. Also, from what I understand, it wasn't necessarily arguing back and forth that created this turn of events but old fashion hard work and until that same level of quality is put towards "Global Warming" all you have is the same colorful graphs that people have been desensitized to and continuous arguing back and forth.
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,362
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"One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary." --Ayn Rand
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by GrimJack
Do you know what the troposphere is?
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Originally Posted by GrimJack
This is the rant; you disputed the data at the links I provided w/o actually providing any data of your own.
zeroth
"No one remembers who climbed Mount Everest the second time." — Na Nook.
Global Warming is just a liberal propaganda tool aimed at the dumbasses who fall for that shit. Seriously.. Do some research yourself. Almost every scientist (not paid by the democrats) acknowledges the fact that the Earth natrually warms and cools itself, and that humans have had a negligible affect on this process. Why don't you find a graph of the average temperature on Earth for the past few hundred years... Al Gore is a moron.. Politicians are not scientists. Al gore knows jackshit about science, but he does know how to make an impact in Liberal America. Believe what you will.
Last edited by joshSCH; Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:01 pm. Reason: Lick my balls
Josh, heh,heh - what a gas! Your argument against defines any scientist who disagrees with you to be in the pay of Democrats; then you take a shot at Al Gore for not being a scientist (and call him a moron - not a particularly intellectual or apt description) - sigh!
I don't need to argue about Al Gore - he has a Nobel prize and I don't so let's stick with the topic.
I don't need to argue about Al Gore - he has a Nobel prize and I don't so let's stick with the topic.
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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