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Posse Commitatus
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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The Posse Comitatus act is under threat (if it is not already completely negated) by this administration. Consider that the military has been used as police (US Marines shot and killed a 14 year old with a .22 in Arizona(?) while on 'border' patrol in a drug interdiction - and they were cleared). I have no problems with National Guard or even reservists as they are under the control of their state governors.
To be honest, I am not comfortable with the norther Idaho survivalists, or the wacko militias but I will join them if I have to. I grew up in Montana (I keep repeating that like it means something) so I still have the guns I was born with. I am accumulating food and supplies and have route back home mapped out.
Unfortunately, I am 60 years and could not hike the 700 miles but I will die a free man.
To be honest, I am not comfortable with the norther Idaho survivalists, or the wacko militias but I will join them if I have to. I grew up in Montana (I keep repeating that like it means something) so I still have the guns I was born with. I am accumulating food and supplies and have route back home mapped out.
Unfortunately, I am 60 years and could not hike the 700 miles but I will die a free man.
Last edited by GrimJack; Oct 3rd, 2008 at 2:22 pm. Reason: Okay, this is just a rant - I was not abducted by black helicopters last night or anything.
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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we are free only because we shot enough people they couldn't control us...just ask the Georgians what it takes to be free...
"No one remembers who climbed Mount Everest the second time." — Na Nook.
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you are making a mountain out of a molehill. The President is allowed to use military force when requested by state governors or when the state is unable or unwilling to to protect civil rights and property. I believe LBJ used that authority in the 1960s to assist school desegregation.
Last edited by Ancient Dragon; Oct 4th, 2008 at 10:58 am.
Don't PM me with questions -- you might get a nasty PM in response. If you have a question then post it in one of the forums.
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Originally Posted by Ancient Dragon 
you are making a mountain out of a molehill. The President is allowed to use military force when requested by state governors or when the state is unable or unwilling to to protect civil rights and property. I believe LBJ used that authority in the 1960s to assist school desegregation.
"No one remembers who climbed Mount Everest the second time." — Na Nook.
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Posting Whiz in Training
Freedom at any price!!
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That's not talking about freedom -- its referring to stopping terrorists, unless of course you think terrorists should be free to use WMD anytime and anyplace they wish.
Don't PM me with questions -- you might get a nasty PM in response. If you have a question then post it in one of the forums.
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Originally Posted by zeroth
we are free only because we shot enough people they couldn't control us...just ask the Georgians what it takes to be free...
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Originally Posted by Ancient Dragon
you are making a mountain out of a molehill. The President is allowed to use military force when requested by state governors or when the state is unable or unwilling to to protect civil rights and property. I believe LBJ used that authority in the 1960s to assist school desegregation.
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Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
LBJ use of Federal troops was under the Insurrection Act which is
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...[T]he set of laws that govern the President of the United States of America's ability to deploy troops within the United States to put down lawlessness, insurrection and rebellion. The laws are chiefly contained in 10 U.S.C. § 331 - 10 U.S.C. § 335. The general aim is to limit Presidential power as much as possible, relying on state and local governments for initial response in the event of insurrection. Coupled with the Posse Comitatus Act, Presidential powers for law enforcement are limited and delayed.
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"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both".
The mountain I am talking about is that the armed forces are not trained in the concepts of law enforcement - this is not derogatory. The armed forces are trained to defend, attack, and contain; there is no real overlap nor should there be. If 2 police officers heard a bullet whiz by their heads, they would look for the source of and, if possible, talk to the person who fired at them, get them to disarm and take them into custody (ideally). If 2 Marines are fired on, they would track the person to his home and kill him. This is why we do not want the armed forces to perform the duties of law enforcement.
Does this make some sense?
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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Originally Posted by Ancient Dragon
That's not talking about freedom -- its referring to stopping terrorists, unless of course you think terrorists should be free to use WMD anytime and anyplace they wish.
To be honest, even bringing up terrorist and WMD in this context seems a little intellectually dishonest - like saying "if you allow <whatever of your choice> the terrorists win." If you want to draw a direct line from this discussion to allowing the terrorists to win, do so but please walk me through your map from one point to another.
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Originally Posted by GrimJack
The mountain I am talking about is that the armed forces are not trained in the concepts of law enforcement - this is not derogatory. The armed forces are trained to defend, attack, and contain; there is no real overlap nor should there be. If 2 police officers heard a bullet whiz by their heads, they would look for the source of and, if possible, talk to the person who fired at them, get them to disarm and take them into custody (ideally). If 2 Marines are fired on, they would track the person to his home and kill him. This is why we do not want the armed forces to perform the duties of law enforcement.
Weren't the ROE stricter than that even in the Iraqi theatre?
In the case where the Mexican Army is performing incursions into the United States, is that a military or law enforcement issue?
"One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary." --Ayn Rand
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