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Theory of Evolution - argument for/against
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An argument is, to quote the Monty Python sketch, "a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition."
Please try to avoid the major logical fallacies.
Definition - Theory:
In science a theory is a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise verified through empirical observation.
Definition - Evolution:
Evolution is usually defined simply as changes in trait or gene frequency in a population of organisms from one generation to the next. However, "evolution" is often used to include the following additional claims:
1. Differences in trait composition between isolated populations over many generations may result in the origin of new species.
2. All living organisms alive today have descended from a common ancestor (or ancestral gene pool).
Various famous people say: If anyone wants to add anything to the definitions or rules, now is as good a time as any - or jump right in with your argument. Please feel free to argue with any part of this post.
No ad hominem attacks
No insults
An argument is, to quote the Monty Python sketch, "a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition."
Please try to avoid the major logical fallacies.
Definition - Theory:
In science a theory is a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise verified through empirical observation.
Definition - Evolution:
Evolution is usually defined simply as changes in trait or gene frequency in a population of organisms from one generation to the next. However, "evolution" is often used to include the following additional claims:
1. Differences in trait composition between isolated populations over many generations may result in the origin of new species.
2. All living organisms alive today have descended from a common ancestor (or ancestral gene pool).
Various famous people say:
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Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers.
--Voltaire (1694-1778)
A definition is no proof.
--William Pinkney, American diplomat (1764-1822)
A theory is more impressive the greater the simplicity of its premises, the more different the kinds of things it relates and the more extended its range of applicability.
--Albert Einstein, 1949
Last edited by GrimJack; Oct 27th, 2008 at 11:05 pm.
Imagine a world without hypotheticals....
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You can have my book when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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I know many people mistakenly believe evolution is a fact while its actually nothing more than just a good (ok very good) theory. There is no way to prove evolution, just as there is no way to prove creationism. We can believe all we want but that doesn't make it fact. We can test short evolution durations, say between two or three generations or so but there is no way to show how (or if) one species evolves into an entirely different species.
I'm not arguing that evolution doesn't exit -- only that it isn't a proven fact.
Creationism, on the otherhand, is on an even shaker grounds than evolution. Its not even possible to create a theory about intelligent creation. I do think there was intelligent design when creating the universe. Something, or someone, had to create the universe -- it didn't just happen out of nothing. Even if you believe the Big Bang theory, someone had to create that mass that exploded.
My though is that the Bible correctly tells us who created the universe, but what it doesn't tell us is how it was created. We will never know the true answer to that, but it probably started with the Big Bang. When the Earth cooled down enough to support life then evolution took hold, and over a few billion years we humans evolved into what we are today.
I'm not arguing that evolution doesn't exit -- only that it isn't a proven fact.
Creationism, on the otherhand, is on an even shaker grounds than evolution. Its not even possible to create a theory about intelligent creation. I do think there was intelligent design when creating the universe. Something, or someone, had to create the universe -- it didn't just happen out of nothing. Even if you believe the Big Bang theory, someone had to create that mass that exploded.
My though is that the Bible correctly tells us who created the universe, but what it doesn't tell us is how it was created. We will never know the true answer to that, but it probably started with the Big Bang. When the Earth cooled down enough to support life then evolution took hold, and over a few billion years we humans evolved into what we are today.
Don't PM me with questions -- you might get a nasty PM in response. If you have a question then post it in one of the forums.
...And they lived happily ever after. The end.
Last edited by Aia; Oct 27th, 2008 at 11:54 pm. Reason: Making The end prettier
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Best argument for evolution: We've seen it happen and verified it many times in other animals like flies, which have lifespans short enough and have enough offspring per generation that we can see it quickly. Human beings just don't change fast enough, but if we've seen other living beings evolve, why couldn't we have too?
Worst argument against evolution: It doesn't explain everything, so we can toss the whole theory out. (I imagine that's one of the fallacies you listed. Haven't checked the link yet).
Worst argument against evolution: It doesn't explain everything, so we can toss the whole theory out. (I imagine that's one of the fallacies you listed. Haven't checked the link yet).
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Practically a Posting Shark
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Originally Posted by VernonDozier 
We've seen it happen and verified it many times in other animals like flies, which have lifespans short enough and have enough offspring per generation that we can see it quickly.
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
-- The documentation is inevitable, you may get away with it for a little while but eventually you too will have to do the deed.
-- The documentation is inevitable, you may get away with it for a little while but eventually you too will have to do the deed.
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Originally Posted by Ancient Dragon
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Something, or someone, had to create the universe -- it didn't just happen out of nothing. Even if you believe the Big Bang theory, someone had to create that mass that exploded.
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Big Bang only relates to the universe we know, and the tiny fraction of time we think we understand. Evolution is an event of time and time is endless.
Last edited by vegaseat; Oct 28th, 2008 at 7:45 am.
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Posting Whiz
Genes change from one generation to the next. That is evolution and that we know is a fact. The purpose of these genes changing through the random selection of genetic material in the gametes during meiosis occurs in order for life to survive. Without changing genes (or evolution) through successive generations, all offspring would be identical to there parents and therefore, unable to run faster, jump higher, think quicker etc. Being different from one another allows for survival of the fittest, in which case if a predator is faster, then the faster prey will survive and hence, be more likely to pass the gene which made it faster to its offspring. Eventually this will create a faster animal and through thousands of generations a new branch of the family which it originally came.
One major factor which causes these separations of genetic similarity, is segregation or separation from the same family. This can be caused by land forms or different migration patterns. Eventually one group of the same family would have to adapt to different surroundings through survival of the fittest and therefore become a dissimilar family.
These above statements do not take into account random genetic mutation, which may also cause variation in genetic make up from one generation to the next.
I, personally, think that to deny evolution is just ignorance. And remember, the route word of ignorance is "Ignore". To simply ignore things that are as plane as day doesn't make sense.
One major factor which causes these separations of genetic similarity, is segregation or separation from the same family. This can be caused by land forms or different migration patterns. Eventually one group of the same family would have to adapt to different surroundings through survival of the fittest and therefore become a dissimilar family.
These above statements do not take into account random genetic mutation, which may also cause variation in genetic make up from one generation to the next.
I, personally, think that to deny evolution is just ignorance. And remember, the route word of ignorance is "Ignore". To simply ignore things that are as plane as day doesn't make sense.
An eye for an eye and the world would be blind.
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100 Reasons why Evolution is so stupid
Some good points are mentioned in this (rather long) video, but no where near enough to stop me believing in evolution
but personally, I dont think he knows what hes talking about 95% of the time 
Some good points are mentioned in this (rather long) video, but no where near enough to stop me believing in evolution
but personally, I dont think he knows what hes talking about 95% of the time Last edited by William Hemsworth; Oct 28th, 2008 at 12:02 pm.
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