Rounded Corners?

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Re: Rounded Corners?

 
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  #11
Dec 21st, 2004
"tables are for tabulated data, not layout." -

Certainly disagree. Tables are not only for tabulated data but also for layouts.
It plays the role as a vital design elemant in the html. Certainly tables cannot be ignored or simply considered as a stand for tabulated data.
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Re: Rounded Corners?

 
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  #12
Dec 21st, 2004
It's not an opinion. It is a fact. The W3 says clearly:
Originally Posted by W3C
Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to control layout rather than tables.
Read it for yourself: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html
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Re: Rounded Corners?

 
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  #13
Dec 21st, 2004
If W3C guidelines are followed, there cannot be a design elemant. You should put a stop to your creativity. W3c guidelines are to be followed in some cases, to be ignored in some cases, as simple as easy.
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Re: Rounded Corners?

 
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  #15
Dec 22nd, 2004
This has turned out to be an interesting thread. I've picked up a lot, so thanks. Yes, I finally discovered the small rounded .gif and know how to set it up because of youse guys..good show. Boy howdy, I still have a lot of questions, but this covers this.
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Re: Rounded Corners?

 
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  #16
Dec 22nd, 2004
lol well I'm glad you learned something and I'm sorry we sortof hijacked your thread
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Re: Rounded Corners?

 
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  #17
Dec 22nd, 2004
Originally Posted by DaveSW
It's not an opinion. It is a fact. The W3 says clearly:

"Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to control layout rather than tables."
Key word: "may present problems" . It doesn't always and won't always. So saying no matter what it shouldn't be used for this is nonsense.

And here, "Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display." Once again, "MAY". This part can simply be stopped via testing by the coder/designer. And once again, won't always happen. Testing comes into play here.

Just to quickly say though, I do not dislike css and do not think that tables are "better" (I actually use both since my designs are so graphic intensive, tables and css for the table and cell attributes), but to say they should not be used for something as simple as rounded corners is crazy. Not everyone in the world is worried about 100% pristine/perfect code in the eyes of W3. Especially for something so small.
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Re: Rounded Corners?

 
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  #18
Dec 23rd, 2004
Why would you need a table for rounded corners? The table is simply a means of producing a block level element on the page. A div is exactly the same in function, it just needs less code.

You are correct that the screen width problem can be negated by careful design. However, the may in 'may present problems' is dependant upon the user agent, not a random probability of sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. Certain text only browsers ignore tabulated content completely. Others render your content reading left to right, which means the order is completely wrong if you have a table with a few columns/rows. A complex layout can be completely screwed up. And since google is like a text only browser, you should care.
The W3C was cited as evidence that CSS for layout was a fact, not an opinion. The real reasons why CSS is better are in the first link - centralised control over presentation, reduced code redundancies resulting in bandwidth savings, easier to edit source code, improved control over presentation of your content to older browsers and non-standard browsers (such as pda/mobile phone small screen devices)... etc.
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