Need really real time

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Re: Need really real time

 
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  #11
Jan 19th, 2005
Update:

- I emailed Dr DOS. They have not returned my emails.

- Another old computer just trashed its hard disk. Replacements are impossible to find - nobody makes a drive SMALL enough to work under DOS anymore.

We really need a solution that works in a hurry.
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Re: Need really real time

 
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  #12
Jan 19th, 2005
There are several real-time, DOS-like operating systems available, such as RTOS:
http://www.smxinfo.com/index.html

These support modern disks and such, perhaps they could be a solution. Otherwise, it sounds like a real pickle because
a) your hardware board limits your hardware chassis options
b) the real-time requirements limit your os options

I'm just about out of ideas here, so I'll bow out of the conversation. Good luck to you!
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Re: Need really real time

 
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  #13
Jan 19th, 2005
I can get a new hardware board, provided I know what it fits.

RTOS is just another stupid multitasking system. Multitasking is what KILLS our application.

I need something which does NOT have multitasking in any form.
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Re: Need really real time

 
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  #14
Jan 22nd, 2005
Originally Posted by Real-tiner
HELP! We are 8 years into a 12-year study, and our original computers are failing. There is a serious possibility that the study will not be completed, because we cannot find computers which are compatible with our equipment and which can do the job.

We need to be able to measure and control scientific processes with millisecond accuracy. We can find nothing available which can do our task. Specifically we need to be able to do the following:

1. Collect real world analog data from 8 signal lines once every millisecond, over a period of 4 seconds.

2. Calculate a value from those data, and determine whether or not it exceeds a value determined at the beginning of the experiment.

3. Output the boolean result of the comparison to a digital port before the next millisecond ends.

4. When selected numbers of milliseconds have passed, output certain boolean signals to the digital port to operate equipment during different stages of the experiment.

5. After the 4 seconds are over, save the collected data to disk.

We were able to do this under MS-DOS. But now we are not able to find a machine capable of handling this task. Every computer we have tried messes up on the timing.

- We tried a specialized computer running Unix and C+. If someone who was watching hadn't intervened, the equipment might have been destroyed. It changed the order of the experiment, collecting all of the data first, and saving it to disk. THEN it did the calculations and output the boolean variable from the comparison. Last, it output the experiment stage variables. Somehow, the operating system did not seem to understand that the timing of all of these operations was important, and it rearranged them to process the data faster.

- Windows lets us do I/O only once every 55 millisecionds.

- We have similar problems in Mac OS.

- We have a little board level computer which can do this, which is currently on the market. It has a serial port so a computer can be its console. But it can't communicate with Windows. You have to have a DOS computer to use it.

- We tried e-prime, but it has too much latency, with the output coming several millisecinds after the input, and sometimes the output is bunched up.

I originally posted this in the Quickbasic forum, and they said to try here.
This is prob. no help at all but...several years back I was using an STM that was controlled by a pretty old DOS box. The system had two monitors...one to control the instrument and a second for graphics output. When we initially got the system, we bought our own computer and shipped it to the STM builder who added some custom cards. To make a short story short, the computer died and we needed a replacement motherboard *identically configured* to the original. It was a Dell. It turned out that the motherboard was actually a Dell design (it had funky DELL insignia and patterns soldered on excess space on the motherboard!!!) rather than a third party component. After some back and forth with Dell, they shipped us an *8-year old BRAND NEW replacement motherboard* that they had sitting in some warehouse somewhere...just waiting for the desperate academic willing to shell out ~$500 for antiquated hardware. We got the part and everything worked fine.
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Re: Need really real time

 
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  #15
Feb 1st, 2005
I had an insight on this while studying how the human hearing system can respond to sounds up to 20 KHz under conditions restricting processing speed to much slower values:

- The maximum pulse rate of a nerve cell is about 1 KHz
- The human brain runs at a speed in the range of 2 Hz to 10 Hz.

The cochlea of the ear does a mechanical Fourier transform of the audio signal, and sends THAT to the brain. The brain sends control information to the cochlear cochlea and ossicles, but that information is determined in advance by existing conditions. The cochlear nucleus then does the actual control function at a much higher speed. This gave me the idea.

I am currently working on a solution which uses an analog computing device for the critical calculation. As I see it, this will have:

- addressable digital output ports so the computer can set the parameters
- A/D converters to provide the analog parameter values for the calculation
- some analog calculus (PID) circuits to actually do the calculations
- a data collector card for the computer
- a trigger line to start the data collector card
- a switch so the user can lock out parameter changes during a trial
- one program to calibrate the parameter values
- one program to set the values for the next trial
- one program to collect one trial of the experiment
Last edited by Real-tiner; Feb 1st, 2005 at 3:00 pm. Reason: smubyding
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