Are you looking for an argument of just slumming?

Others, however, now f@ck-all about contributing to hep forums. So far the sum total of your contributions has been entertainment value only, without a single piece if practical advice offered.

If all you have to say is "Security software is not needed, only I know how to set up a system and I'm not going to tell you how" then I'm afraid you're simply wasting space making comment!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I will agree that much, if not all, of what you said, catch, was stuff us as admins were not taught in our bachelor's or MCSA courses and would have to do graduate/specialized IT security training to learn (i.e. DBAC, RBAC, etc.), however - that does not make it foolproof as far as practicality to simply rely on OS security to avoid viruses or attacks, and I was speaking entirely of Windows, not any other OS you or your teams may have come across, created, or implemented, as Microsoft has 90% of the market today and what is really what people would want to worry about. Chances are, if you're speaking of any other OS, they have their own proprietary security or permissions or controls that probably DOES in some way allow you to do what you are trying to divulge, but are withholding. But I challenge you to do this with a typical corporate networked, multi-user Microsoft 2000 or XP Pro system.

In Windows, you can't always be logged on as a standard user - you will eventually have to install programs, and likely eventually have one you'll need to stay online, or at least networked to a computer that could be online, to complete. You can't lock down the Temporary Internet Files folder. There will always be some time, some where, at which you will be vulnerable if you stick with permissions and transitive trusts as your sole methods of keeping out the files and attackers that are bouncing around on the internet, unless you're willing to share your knowledge on how you guys have set things to where this really does become a non-issue on a Windows system. I don't see it happening, myself.

Just by going to this website on a Windows computer you'll have a number of files download to your computer to display it (icon_cool.gif, insertimage.gif, bold.gif, etc.) and any of those images could have a virus attached to them that, when the picture is displayed, could cause any picture you open on your computer after that to become corrupt. Do I have to send you this virus to prove that it exists and what it can do? It is W32/Klez@mm. I do know what I am talking about, and no security permissions in the world can prevent the spread, because you run the virus just by opening another picture (gif, bmp, jpg, tiff) or mp3 file. It doesn't install anything anywhere, so it doesn't need admin privileges to spread. The only thing that may save you is that it will likely be confined to just your current profile and not any other user on the machine as long as you don't open a file that could be open by any user as the user that downloaded the virus, and this is just a guess on my part.

I agree that running an AV software that won't have the definition file for the latest threat out there won't help you, but neither will Windows permissions, as this was what I thought we were originally discussing. Leave other OSs out and focus on what 90% of us know and have. It's useless to talk about a feature of Mac's Tiger or Linux' Enterprise 4 or Sun Solaris or any other proprietary OS when the rest of the world isn't using them. Especially if you aren't going to say specifically what you are doing to lock the systems down but leave them functional for an administrator to install programs, user to surf the 'net, etc.

this expert only spoke out all of his title and resume. nothing else.

So the moral of the story is that if you a guru at Windows you don't need AV or Firewall, but if you thick like me you do. What is the comparison between using an AV / Firewall or letting windows security to avoid malicious software, against usability.

I have to security lock down PCs in my job, and many of the things I test make the PC completely unusable, to the point you can't even load the operating system.

If you don't want to discuss other OSs fine, but 10% of the computer using public is still a large proportion, and it's good that this forum duly caters for them.

Catch-er got a rubber arm Catch-er got a rubber arm ,no sorry that pitcher got a rubber arm isn't it ,oh well .Have fun and spread like a worm!lol

I currently run roughly 10 linux machines at a datacneter.. 5 production... 5 offline..

ALl of them are equipped with what I like to call "nazi" a type firewall an virus protection.

The mail servers run spamassain and clamav.

It is simply a MUST. Just how you would put a lock on your door.

Hey guys...this person is a self aggrandizing wanabe autocrat with a tendecy toward pompous pontification. This person gets off on this crap...let's cut him loose.

huh?? what??

DCC: are you talking about me?

I was stating the facts.

No Way...I was refering to the author of the thread, what was it...catchup, catch22, or something like that?