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The programming learning curve:
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I'm not going through everything or even in detail with it. This thread wasn't started to have a language war.
One example:
Besides the really old if-then-end if syntanx, what happens if you do the same in about any other language not in .NET platform? I've seen this billions of times. It can occur as an accidental misstype or in a lot of cases from .NET programmers especially vb.
One example:
If x = 2 Then 'blah blah End If
Besides the really old if-then-end if syntanx, what happens if you do the same in about any other language not in .NET platform? I've seen this billions of times. It can occur as an accidental misstype or in a lot of cases from .NET programmers especially vb.
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Originally Posted by server_crash
I'm not going through everything or even in detail with it. This thread wasn't started to have a language war.
One example:
If x = 2 Then 'blah blah End If
Besides the really old if-then-end if syntanx, what happens if you do the same in about any other language not in .NET platform? I've seen this billions of times. It can occur as an accidental misstype or in a lot of cases from .NET programmers especially vb.
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by server_crash
I'm not going through everything or even in detail with it. This thread wasn't started to have a language war.
One example:
If x = 2 Then 'blah blah End If
Besides the really old if-then-end if syntanx, what happens if you do the same in about any other language not in .NET platform? I've seen this billions of times. It can occur as an accidental misstype or in a lot of cases from .NET programmers especially vb.
I understand the example that you provided. Every language has examples of that-- little "gotchas" that you have to watch out for. C#, a .NET language, does not allow you to do that in an if loop. (It throws a warning/error) I'm genuinely asking for an opinion on a language/language family, and what drawbacks/limitations it may have. If it really takes the thread far off-topic, I'll split it out, but I think if you make a comment to avoid a particular framework, you owe it to provide a good explanation if someone questions. I really think that the original poster would benefit from such an exposition.
The .NET framework has a lot of handy and powerful classes/libraries. I think it's simple enough that you could learn basic syntax and programming technique, but it's powerful enough that you don't have to simply drop the language once you really need to start getting work done.
Last edited by alc6379; Jul 19th, 2006 at 3:27 pm.
Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379
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What does happen? Just out of curiosity...
if (x = 3)
then it's not comparing x to the value of three, it's setting x to the value of 3.
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Originally Posted by alc6379
I'm not asking to start a language war-- I know full well how not to do that
I understand the example that you provided. Every language has examples of that-- little "gotchas" that you have to watch out for. C#, a .NET language, does not allow you to do that in an if loop. (It throws a warning/error) I'm genuinely asking for an opinion on a language/language family, and what drawbacks/limitations it may have. If it really takes the thread far off-topic, I'll split it out, but I think if you make a comment to avoid a particular framework, you owe it to provide a good explanation if someone questions. I really think that the original poster would benefit from such an exposition.
The .NET framework has a lot of handy and powerful classes/libraries. I think it's simple enough that you could learn basic syntax and programming technique, but it's powerful enough that you don't have to simply drop the language once you really need to start getting work done.
The biggest reason I despise the language for beginners is because I made the mistake of starting with VB.NET years ago. It made me extremely lazy and I didn't realize the importance of not programming in an IDE with GUI builder and intellisense right off the bat. From VB.NET I went to Java and just about gave up, because it was too much work compared to VB.NET. Luckily, I'm stubborn and stick with things and learned Java from the ground up and have an excellent grasp on it. You can't tell me someone who's just starting to program will want to learn VB.NET without all the added tools... The chances of you knowing not to do so is very slim.
If you have a little experience under your belt then it's fine. The .NET languages are the best around for RAD and really do a great job of allowing a lot of power with little knowledge. I'm not bashing the .NET framework in anyway. I actually love it and think it's something special, but I don't think it's good to start out with if you plan on becomming a programmer. Heck, I didn't even consider VB a real language until they added inheritance.
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but it's powerful enough that you don't have to simply drop the language once you really need to start getting work done.[/
The best language for a beginner, in my opinion, is Java. I haven't seen a language yet that displays all the concepts of OO in such a friendly and understanding manner. If you want proof then just look around at what language the universities are switching to. If you can master Java and understand it's elements and features, then you've got it made. You can go into about any programming language and it's just learning syntax from there.
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Thank you. That was exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for 
Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379
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Originally Posted by server_crash
The best language for a beginner, in my opinion, is Java. I haven't seen a language yet that displays all the concepts of OO in such a friendly and understanding manner.
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If you want proof then just look around at what language the universities are switching to. If you can master Java and understand it's elements and features, then you've got it made. You can go into about any programming language and it's just learning syntax from there.
Universities switching to Java is a good thing? I don't feel like listing a rant here, and fortunately, somebody else has replicated my opinion.
All my posts may be redistributed under the GNU Free Documentation License.
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Originally Posted by Rashakil Fol
I don't understand this OO-mindedness that people have. Learning CS isn't about learning how to think in an object-oriented fashion, or how to organize things in that particular fashion (because that's just one way of doing it). It's really only about learning how to solve problems -- being able to state problems precisely, and being able to encode algorithms that you could perform ad hoc into precise definitions. This ability comes from thinking about problems, and particularly, thinking about different ways of describing problems and their solutions. It also helps to have a general understanding of how important parts of the computer, like operating systems, work. And for that it greatly helps to have used vastly different languages, from C to Lisp.
This is just patently untrue. Besides rudimentary forms of BASIC, the only popular languages you could jump to are C# and Python, unless you want to willfully limit yourself to a subset of other languages' abilities.
Universities switching to Java is a good thing? I don't feel like listing a rant here, and fortunately, somebody else has replicated my opinion.
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Originally Posted by jread 
I'm thinking that the learning curve for this stuff is a lot higher than I expected and that it will take awhile to get the hang of it. I feel like I should be able to just jump right in but all that's done is made me get frustrated and want to give up. Kind of the, "I'm too stupid to do this" feeling. It's overwhelming at times.
I know that this does not really address your concern. I have to tell myself that there is only so much I can do concerning programming in one 24-hour period, and at the same time see to other responsibilities: relationship, pets, laundry, meals, etc. Believe me, I can (and do) spend ALL day\ night on the computer\ compiler, but sometimes I just have to step away and read a book, take a walk with my girlfriend, or cook a nice dinner. The interesting thing is, I usually solve my largest problems with programming during these times, casually thinking over the problem, not while I am on the compiler.
Regards.
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Posting Whiz in Training
I did Physics at university and the course included some numerical modelling work. Guess what language we were given to learn first....Fortran. It has some neat features, like having loads of fancy mathematical functions built into the core of the language. Since learning about other languages I've realised it's not really worth using unless you're doing heavy number crunching. But somthing I've noticed is that every other language I know about has many similarities to it. This is not surprising as they all came after it.
So, I'd recommend learning Fortran to a wannabe programmer. It's the original and best :p .
Steven.
So, I'd recommend learning Fortran to a wannabe programmer. It's the original and best :p .
Steven.
The one question you should not ask when teaching a new language structure is "Do you understand?". Do you understand?
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