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Giving code to posters rather than helping them
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,273
Reputation: 
Solved Threads: 378
The concept of actually writing code is really a waste of time, for newbies like yourself. It's amazing how many people worry about the syntax.
All programs should begin as flow charts. I'm sure you've come across these in baby school.
Once you have grasped the notion that all programs are essentially just flow charts, then you can move onto the next stage. Converting the flow charts into code.
Simple.
And just for the record I was being sacastic in the sense that may4life was doing you a favour by writing your code for you. He shouldn't have, and he's a fool for doing so. He he.
You learn by your mistakes. That's how you become great.
All programs should begin as flow charts. I'm sure you've come across these in baby school.
Once you have grasped the notion that all programs are essentially just flow charts, then you can move onto the next stage. Converting the flow charts into code.
Simple.
And just for the record I was being sacastic in the sense that may4life was doing you a favour by writing your code for you. He shouldn't have, and he's a fool for doing so. He he.
You learn by your mistakes. That's how you become great.
Last edited by iamthwee; Nov 29th, 2006 at 5:55 pm.
*Voted best profile in the world*
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,051
Reputation:
Solved Threads: 332
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Originally Posted by may4life 
I've recently got into C++! That's a big difference. I know my code is correct and I aways post it without warnings or errors.
void main(). Does that mean it's correct? Bugs can also be present, which may not show themselves at first.•
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For example, if the person doesn't understand switch statements and i have one in the code i wrote, the responsible thing to do is go look it up, learn how it works and compare it to the code.
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The general idea i'm trying to get across is that i am giving out my idea of how I would solve that problem (and also giving the code of how to do it). I urge people to look at my code (to understand how i thought of overcoming the problem) and then give it a go with their own ideas. A lot of people here are vert smart, they are just confused or stuck on an idea or concept.
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By seeing how I overcame that specific point in the program clears these thoughts out and lets them continue onwards from there.
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What makes you think if someone doesnt give them some help with the code, everyone WILL learn by themselves?
Also, we that do explain to the newbies how code works, to the best of our ability, put a lot of time and effort into our posts. It's not easy. Are you saying that your method is better than ours? Obviously you must spend some time coding, too, but it's a lot harder and more time-consuming then it seems to give a good explanation on how a particular function/code snippet works.
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Being a teacher, you too should know that a lot of teachers teaching the same subject have different methods. Same syllabus, different ways of communicating. Imagine if you never gave any code in the class, just teached theory and told the students to go out and google "linked lists"..
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How many would come back knowing how they work with a coded example of their own? 1? 2 the most? Only the ones who really really really care.
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Originally Posted by confused!
Is there possibly a happy medium?
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I have posted for help a couple of times and have gotten some help, or have gotten absolutely no response and sometimes I just get personal messages telling me to put my code in tags. It was may4life that has helped me the most. First of all, may4life explained to me what it meant to put my code in tags, since I am a newbie who truly doesn't know anything about programming for the life of me couldn't figure out what that even meant.
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal."
All my posts may be freely redistributed under the terms of the MIT license.
All my posts may be freely redistributed under the terms of the MIT license.
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Originally Posted by confused!
Is there possibly a happy medium?
As JoeProgrammer suggests
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So if they're only stuck on one idea or concept, why not help them specifically with that part, instead of showing them the entire program? If they are capable of writing *most* of the program, let them do that. Let them get experience with that part. If they are truly stuck on a part, explain to them how to do it AND give them a code example. That's the best way of teaching someone.
may4life's argument is if you give them a working solution, the people that really want to learn will. I completely agree. It's the other 50-60% of them I don't want passing on someone else's work. There are enough hacks in the industry already. We don't need more graduates that barely know what they are doing because rather than figure it out, someone else does their work for them. It's these people that should not be given code. And if you really want to learn, they don't want it written for them. Therefore, the common denominator -- don't give working solutions. Give examples that explain the idea and let them solve it themselves.
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Originally Posted by confused!
I am a "newbie" - I am as new as they come, taking my very first ever programming class which happens to focus on C++. There were no prerequisites for this class but the teacher I have seems to assume that everyone in the class has had some experience with programming. In many cases, he is right, but there are some of us that have had no experience at all.
I honestly understand your dilema. There are a lot of bad teachers out there, and many of them are teaching bad coding practices. Unfortunately, it's the school that has to do something about that. Still, handing you the solution does not help you. Reading the book and asking questions will. That's what we're here for. We'll help clear up the crap your instructor hands you. But if you are given the solution, what incentive is there to learn -- you can still pass. "Hey guys, just go over to Daniweb. They'll do your homework for you so at least you can pass!." Get real!
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Originally Posted by confused!
I have posted for help a couple of times and have gotten some help, or have gotten absolutely no response and sometimes I just get personal messages telling me to put my code in tags.
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Originally Posted by confused!
It was may4life that has helped me the most. First of all, may4life explained to me what it meant to put my code in tags, since I am a newbie who truly doesn't know anything about programming for the life of me couldn't figure out what that even meant.
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Originally Posted by confused!
Second of all, I don't think it's fair to assume that all the students out there just post their problems wanting someone else to do the work.
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Originally Posted by confused!
I, myself, have spent countless hours reading my assignments, going through my class notes, I even bought a book at Barnes and Noble called "Teach yourself C++ in 24 hours", still I can spend 10-12 hours in front of the computer on a Sunday afternoon and not be able to figure out where to begin with a program. I can write out in English what I want the program to do, but sometimes can't come up with any code to get myself started. may4life has helped me out, given me code, which I then studied and played with to figure out what the purpose of each line of the code was for.
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Originally Posted by confused!
So, though I understand that a small percentage of people could be posting just to get out of doing their homework, please don't assume that all of us are doing that. I, myself, wouldn't dream of turning in someone else's work without understanding each piece of it and modifying it to make it my own.
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Originally Posted by confused!
This website is fantastic and I appreciate the fact that you all are out there to help, but please understand that some of us are so new at this that we need a push, and without help we don't even know where to start with the code.
Just wanted to let you know where a true "newbie" is coming from.
I appreciate your position and "where you'tre coming from." We've all been there. At the same time, can you understand what we're trying to say? Solutions do not help in the long run. Tips and techniques do.
To paraphrase the fish thing:
Give a student the code, they pass the course. Teach them to code, they have a carreer.
The 3 Laws of the Procrastination Society:
1) Never do today that which can be put off until tomorrow
2) Tomorrow never comes
1) Never do today that which can be put off until tomorrow
2) Tomorrow never comes
i agree. I will help newbies with coding ONLY if they:
have done either an alpha piece of code and have a clear idea of what they want, but are just having trouble doing it
Dont know where to start but are prepared to do the work themselves if we point them in the right direction with some psuedocode or something
have done either an alpha piece of code and have a clear idea of what they want, but are just having trouble doing it
Dont know where to start but are prepared to do the work themselves if we point them in the right direction with some psuedocode or something
If i am helpful, please give me reputation points.
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