This thread is intended to discuss college decisions and perhaps seek advice from graduates. The discussion of colleges/tuition has begun to take over the 'God v. Atheism' debate, and I felt the two issues needed to be separated.

Also, please post your thoughts of college tuition these days.. College tuition has increased so rapidly that government financial aid cannot keep up! Tuition has increased at a rate faster than inflation ever since I can remember... This means colleges and universities are making much higher profits from our tuition.. And where is this money going? Probably straight to the top.. into the hands of chancellors, deans, presidents.. Why doesn't the government do anything about it? Developed countries need more people to attend college, and how can this happen if colleges cost more and more?

http://www.voanews.com/english/archi...1-01-voa51.cfm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...rd-college.htm

What some people have said thus far:

I also found this from elsewhere on the Daniweb forums:

Obviously, the decision to attend college is a big one for most people.. And I don't think money should be a factor in this decision at all...

I think i may go to uni in scotland. its cheaper

i thought u might!

The whole college thing is kind of messed up IMHO. Mind you, I have a very biased way of looking at things, but I'll try to explain. Also keep in mind that this is based on the US system as I have very little idea how other places work.

First off, college is for furthering education, not something that's required. A high school education should be enough for someone to find a job providing a liveable income (though certainly not a lavish one). There are many jobs that someone needs to do but nobody really wants to. Take waste management; who want's to go around picking up people's garbage? But someone needs to do it. With our (again IMHO) decreasing standards, we've fairly botched this one, so now everyone thinks they should have to go to college. We're at a point where not going to college is a great disadvantage, but a college education was traditionally something for privileged individuals. Now, everyone thinks they have a right to go to college and that the government should pay for it.

That throws people into a predicament of having to pay for college. And of course, if you're going to go to college, you should go to the best college in your field. Private institutions and out-of-state prices leave many students graduating with 100k debt or so. On the other hand, public schools are typically much more affordable. And there are scholarships and grants that help students afford some means of an education. Affording school can be done, it just requires a lot of work depending on your background. Neither of my parents (or grandparents) ever got anything beyond a 2-year degree, but somehow my parents have managed to put me and my sister through 4 years (well, I'm done in 3, and my sister's just starting...). We both are going to public schools with in-state tuition, and it's actually affordable at the moment. With continuing tuition rate hikes, I don't think that'll last long though (there was a proposition at my school to double tuition, then use the increased money to provide more grants to those who couldn't afford the hike; however, if they were to double it, those who could still afford it would probably go to a similarly priced public school and those who couldn't afford it would not get the grants needed).

One rather handy way to get a college degree in the US is to join the armed forces. The Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) pays like $40k/yr for tuition or $100k total (I can't remember). Plus they give you a little spending money too, and you're guaranteed a job (even a career) as soon as you graduate. The obvious drawback: you're stuck in the <armed force of choice> for 4 years. The not-so-obvious drawback: students often get the quickest degree they can (quite often history or English).

Which leads me to one of my most biased points. Liberal arts degrees are largely, IMO, a huge waste of time and money. There are many students who go to college not knowing what they want to do, get a degree, and then (still not knowing what they want to do) go out and find a job. They usually end up doing the same things as someone who only finished high school, but they've got college loans to pay off as well. I will certainly acknowledge that there are people who take their LA degrees and put them to use (e.g. English majors becoming authors, history majors continuing in that field, etc...). But the others are just wasting their time and everyone's resources.

One other problem with the system is the illusion to students that after 4 years they'll be able to start a career in their field. While that is true for some (including myself), it is quite often not the case. For many of the liberal arts and sciences, a full-blown career requires a great background in related academia, or to put it simply, a graduate degree. Doctors for example have PhDs. Would you go to a doctor who didn't? Similarly, even professors usually have to have a PhD in the field they teach. What kind of career would you have starting with only a Bachelor's degree in, say, chemistry?

So, how do we solve these problems? Well, we can't just change the system. It's like the gun thing; it's been this way, and you have to work really slowly to get anything to change. But there are a few things that IMHO should be done.

To help people pay for college, the government should implement a civil service system. For each year you attend school, the government will pay tuition costs and provide a small bit of spending money on the side. In exchange, after you graduate you should have to spend a year in the field in which you studied. Good luck to LA students, but the engineering and science graduates would get a great boon from this sytem. Not only do they get their degree, but they also get some experience before they branch out into their own careers (and they could even keep a career in their respective civil service field). This system obviously has many basic flaws, such as people changing majors, double majors, or not finishing degrees, etc... but it's an idea.

We also need to clear up a few misperceptions, specifically those about needing a degree or what a degree will actually help for. A history or English degree isn't worth a lot unless you want to work in those fields. A history degree probably requires graduate level studies before you can make a career of it, too. For people who don't know what field they want to study, they should probably not be working towards random, whimsical degrees. The latter problem could (and arguably should) be taken care of during the later parts of the required education system. Specialized curriculums should be introduced at the high school level so that students can begin to see what working in a particular field entails. One problem with this is that students still don't have much idea of what they want at that age, and that the high school period is still quite short to get the general education and a specialized one on top of that.

There should also be more short length training programs for specific jobs. Being a network admin shouldn't require a 4 year degree in Info Systems. Another example would be machinists. What would they study for 4 years? Their field depends largely on acquiring experience, not so much on book learning.

Just my verbose $0.02...

Most degrees here are 3/4 (4 if you want a work placement).

And hey serunson, its your lovely english taxes that mean scots like me pay next to nothing for uni

hmm.. I just thought of something: In the past when college was relatively cheap, not many people attended.. However, now it seems like a lot more people are going off to college.. You're right, not going to college is a huge disadvantage now.. I think it works similarly to the supply/demand system. All people are beginning to realize that it is important to attend college. So, tons of people are going to college (including a much higher percentage of the minority). With so many people going to college and earning degrees, it is becoming much more competitive for people to get high paying jobs. The supply, so to speak, of the educated work force is increasing faster than the demand. As you said earlier, we need the *stupid* people to work for waste management and janitorial jobs, but more and more of these people are going to college. College tuition drastically increases attempting to offset this imbalance. We need poor, uneducated people to NOT go to college so that the rich, educated people maintain control of society. This has worked successfully in the past.. (I'm not saying it was a very nice thing) The white majority has kept the minority (mexicans and blacks in particular) low in society by making education too expensive. However, today with programs such as affirmative action that reach out to the minorities, more and more people of low social/economic class are attending college. What does this mean? There are more and more intelligent people in the United States, and less uneducated people. If America continues this trend, I can see major problems in the future.. Doctors, professors, and other professionals may begin having difficulties finding jobs... among other things that I'm sure you can foresee too..

Now, this may just be some crazy theory of mine... but as I read your post, something just clicked.. Perhaps it is a good thing that college education is so expensive.. It helps place a barrier that the poor cannot reach.. We would not be able to function without these poor people.. We need poor people for there to be rich people, otherwise it's just communism. Ok, so I change my position on this issue.. I believe it is in our best interest for education to be expensive.. To keep the poor, well poor, and the rich rich. Haha, perhaps this sounds a little heartless.. but hey, It's the truth.

Looking forward to further comments about this..

I don't think we should block the poor from going to college. I guess I misrepresented that. The poor who do put forth the effort required should by all means be put through school, even if it requires that they be subsidized somehow. That's why we have competitive scholarships, some of which even target the lower class. By the same token, there are some from the upper class who shouldn't be bogging the system down. Of course, if they can afford it, who will stop them? The schools won't be likely to turn away a mostly reasonable student willing to pay full fare.

But if we help the poor become more educated and therefore lead them out of poverty.. The rest of us become poorer. It all equals out in a capitalist economy.. Who will clean our streets, toilets, and cities if we have no poor people?

Programs like affirmative action are complete bull.. Why should colleges accept less qualified students just b/c they help make the school racially diverse? It's racist! Programs such as affirmative action are unconstitutional and should not be enforced at any college. In fact, I wrote my junior theme about it.. in case someone is interested:
http://www.angelfire.com/super2/pedb...ive_Action.htm

yeah i dont like affirmative action.

And i mean not everyone need higher education. A friend of mine left school at 16 and is doing an apprentiship as a plumber and the guy he shadows earns nearly £100,000 a year (thats 3/4 times the average wage!)