This has been a very entertaining discussion!

I love all the "Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about" comments.

I now understand why there is no peace in the Middle East. They are fighting over which compiler is better. Why, just yesterday someone strapped a Pascal compiler on his back and ran into a crowded C++-only internet cafe!

For my two cents worth, I always liked Snowbol; CatsPaw still has a version that works well. Awesome for parsing! Every line implicitly includes an IF/ELSE statement in it! Ahh, those were the days.

Meanwhile, MS is pushing it's 'managed' languages, mostly C# and VB, so that they can make use of .NET. Some segment of the programming population will go that way. Others will ride the Java train. Still others will use C/C++ stuff for some time. It sort of depends on which community you are in (in my opinion). ROM writers will use C or ASM, C++ is great for a large number of lower-level things. Java seems to run on everything, including cell phones. VB is great for IT departments throwing together a few screens quickly. C# is great for some kinds of web apps.

They can most all be used for just about anything if you want, but some are easier for some classes of tasks, and some fit the 'genre' of the task at hand. I am hard pressed to think of why you would even want to declare one language "the best" or "dead." It's sorta like asking which screwdriver is "the best" or declaring that "Phillips head screws are dead."

But don't listen to me, obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about.

:-)

Now, back to the flames....

If anything, let's not get back to the flames. Please keep things civil here, lest I be forced to close the thread.

i am a newbie in MFC
when i read this words,i don't what should i do
java, a new good language,but I no the basic of java
and i just can use c and c++,i don't want to spend more time on java
i am confusion now
who can tell me what should i do
study java or continue my MFC????????????????????
I don't want two kinds of result..........

An interesting thread. I really hate it that everyone is going for the jugular, hinders productivity somewhat. I too am considering directions to travel. Right now the only language I can write in is Pig Latin . I was told to learn VB first, and then C++. The last time I even ventured into this realm was on the Amiga, years ago; and was so turned on by putting down just a little bit of code and a perfect circle was drawn. I've been diverted over time into publishing and graphics, but would like to pursue this once more. Constructive thoughts will be appreciated..I spy apparent talent hanging out here, even with the differences of opinion.
Thanks,
BuddyB

I want the languages we had before C took over.

Took over? Tbh, I always thought C/C++ were the big daddys of programming, but they're not. There are loads of decent programming languages out there, and like I said its all about which one you feel more comfortable with <3

>study java or continue my MFC????????????????????
Both. The more, the merrier.

>I was told to learn VB first, and then C++.
Learn whatever looks most interesting to you. If somebody tells you to learn a language and you hate it then you've just sold yourself short. VB is recommended because it's easy and powerful at the same time. C++ is recommended because it's incredibly flexible. Java is recommended because it's not as intense as C++. Here are a few of the languages that I've found interesting, at the very least:

C, C++, Java, C#, VB, Perl, Python, Forth

This might give you a start for research before you pick a language to focus on. Each of these is useful, popular, and different enough from any of the others to give you a new flavor of programming.

I never recommend C, C++, Java, or C# as a first language. They're meant to be used by real programmers solving real problems. As such, they're awful as a learning language, though Java and C# are better than C and C++. Python is easy to follow, and Forth is about as simple as programming gets, but Forth is harder to find good information on than Python. Perl is fun. Very fun. But unless you learn it the right way, you'll be confused (as you will with any language that can look like line noise without any effort).

My best suggestion is to get a list of programming languages and do research on them before picking one to learn. By research I mean learn a little bit and take them each for a test spin (just a little bit, play with each for a few days at the most). Not only will you gain valuable experience in multiple languages and methodologies, you'll also learn what your programming tastes are. Your own preference is the most important thing to consider when choosing your first language.

I liked Python as a TV show, but is there anybody out there that likes it as a language?

"C, C++, Java, C#, VB, Perl, Python, Forth"

None of those languages except Forth existed when I learned to program.

We had:

FORTRAN, COBOL, BASIC, PL-1, Pascal, ALGOL, LISP, and Scheme, among others.

I do not like languages like C which change the order of the operations you program in the interest of efficiency. Nobody can program in real time with those new languages.

"Nobody can program in real time with those new languages"

Except for C and careful use of C++, maybe, but you have other issues for real-time stuff as well. Like Windows and Linux getting in your way. So, as many have said here, the notion of a good or bad language depends greatly on your point of view.

As you say, even the palette for language choices may depend on your needs. Real time? ASM, carefully written C or C++, maybe one or two others? Like the simple BASIC used on the STAMP chip, where it is a BASIC that is practically macros for ASM.

Life was easier when you had to pick between COBOL and FORTRAN, as they tended to divide on use; COBOL for business apps (usually batch processing), FORTRAN for research, scientific stuff, etc.

I haven't heard much talk about LISP or PROLOG here, they were used for a certain class of applications, but you barely hear about them now.