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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #231  
May 2nd, 2008
@Yada:
Notice the question mark at the end of the title? The end of the world, as we humans know it, can now be caused by the humans themselves. Before that we had to rely entirely on Mother Nature and her natural disasters.

It would probably take several hundred megaton nuclear bombs, or one cobalt laced dirty explosion.
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #232  
May 2nd, 2008
Originally Posted by Ezzaral View Post
Conversely, please accept that some of us do not. Our simple request is that need be kept as a personal matter and out of our schools, laws, government, and international dealings. Simple enough from our point of view anyway, obviously not so for the majority.
Amen to that! For those of you who believe in God, in God's view we might just be an experiment gone wrong. There might only be one God, but many more experiments with mankind. Maybe some of them might be just a bit more perfect.
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #233  
May 4th, 2008
Sneek, you missed the point (and so did AD), he made a claim - I just wanted him to back up the claim. Your quote does not back up his statement. The claim was roughly 'non-xtians are doomed - it all over the bible'. I just wanted him to support his argument; I am certainly not interested in doing his research for him (or for you for that matter).

[edit]OMG I just noticed that I edited your post instead of quoting it. My deapest apologies for my error -- AD [/edit]

.
Last edited by Ancient Dragon : May 4th, 2008 at 11:33 pm. Reason: unintentional editing
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #234  
May 4th, 2008
Originally Posted by GrimJack View Post
Sneek, you missed the point (and so did AD), he made a claim - I just wanted him to back up the claim. Your quote does not back up his statement. The claim was roughly 'non-xtians are doomed - it all over the bible'. I just wanted him to support his argument; I am certainly not interested in doing his research for him (or for you for that matter).

[edit]OMG I just noticed that I edited your post instead of quoting it. My deapest apologies for my error -- AD [/edit]

.

I already told you that I have no intention of turning this thread into any type of religious war. I'll say it again -- You want a quote: just ONE is John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

There are similar claims all over the New Testiment. Also note that this only applies to people born after Christ was born and who are aware of his teachings. That means everyone born in BC, all children under certain age, and people who never heard of Christ are exempt. So the contention that everyone is doomed is not correct.
Last edited by Ancient Dragon : May 4th, 2008 at 11:38 pm.
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #235  
May 4th, 2008
Originally Posted by Ancient Dragon View Post
I already told you that I have no intention of turning this thread into any type of religious war. I'll say it again -- You want a quote: just ONE is John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

There are similar claims all over the New Testiment
<<Heh, heh - we won't discuss the edit>> thanks, that's all I wanted (though in truth your quote only states that believers will not perish - it does not say non-believers will perish; am I being difficult?). I don't want this to be a religious war either.
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #236  
May 4th, 2008
C'mon, everyone knows it's turtles all the way down.
A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #237  
May 4th, 2008
>> it does not say non-believers will perish
True -- and I think its because their status is ambiguous as far as we are concerned.
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #238  
May 5th, 2008
Originally Posted by Dave Sinkula View Post
C'mon, everyone knows it's turtles all the way down.

See the turtle of enormous girth
on his shell he hold the earth
his thought is slow but always kind
he holds us all within his mind
on his back all vows are made
he sees the truth but mayn't aid
he loves the earth and loves sea
he even loves a child like me

---From the greatest story ever. The Dark Tower. I recited that from memory so if there are any mistakes my apologies.
A room without books is like a body without a soul.
Facts are meaningless. They can be used to prove anything that is even remotely true.
Go then, there are other worlds than these.
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #239  
May 5th, 2008
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
This does not say anything about the "righteous" being taken up to heaven and the rest will perish in some (un)natural disaster. It is nowhere in the Christian Bible that I know of. The idea itself is full of flaws. One is that heaven, if it does indeed exist (and we don't know if it does or not), is the way that it is because that is the kind of "place" that the angels have made it. To suck a bunch of us mere mortals up all at once would pollute heaven into something much lower, by definition. So it wouldn't be heaven any more. (I know, all it takes is a miracle).

And in the above quote, what does "believes in him" mean. Who is "him". It could be God. It could be Jesus. If could be your own inner soul. Also, there is no time frame. It would make sense, that after another million years of human evolution, the few degenerates that are left would perish. Those would be the people who call themselves "Christian" yet hope for the destruction of others, some of whom are Christian, some not. This is not a good quality for any "human" being to have, let alone a Christian. It goes against everything that Jesus said and stood for. "For God so loved the world". Not a subset with a particular set of beliefs.
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Re: 2012, the End of the World?

  #240  
May 5th, 2008
There is too much brutality and suffering on this earth to imagine a "Loving God" looking down on this mess, and not helping to straighten things out.
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