I've been on both ends of this -- sort of. By trade I'm a programmer, but I've hired other programmers before.

My biggest measurement is their portfolio (but you have to know what you are looking at and how "hard" it is to actually create). Tests are ok, but only measure how good of a test taker you are, or how well you've memorized syntax.

Unfortunately non-programmers can be easily fooled by underhanded programmers.

Hi there,

Well I ended up getting someone to help me & in the end the programmer he gave as a pass didn't do a great job.

His code was ok, although the security code was unflexible, but communication & questions were almost non existant & caused a HUGE problem.

I had to hire another programmer just to fix the problems & we're still working on it.

At least he communicates well & he did take a test & did really well, so I'm hoping his code did well.

Also his code was viewed by other programmers & they made comments.

In the end communication & smarts is equally as important as coding & of course the person being ethical as you said.

You should start a screening service LOL. If done right, I feel it would be a big help to everyone involved.

PM me if interested.

Take care & have a great wknd.


Michelle

In general good programmers aren't very good at interpersonal relationships, especially with non-programmers.
There are some that are, and they are great programmers generally. But more often programmers with excellent social skills are mediocre technicians.

Well there has to be a solution to the problem. One can't run a biz w/ people who can't communicate. In fact no relationship is healthy if there is no communication.

I did end up finding someone who communicates well & does a pretty good job of coding.

You can be the best coder & if I can't talk to you & you screw things up, it's worse than if you were mediocre.

My pov


Michelle

The trick is to have people who can communicate with coders to shield them from most of the non-technical stuff

Of course we can communicate, but we tend to drift into technical details and might not understand why others have trouble following our reasoning.

i have never found a good programmer that was good at communicating

Actually when I say communication, I'm not just talking about a programmer talking & me not understanding, I'm talking about them even opening their mouthes & talking at all.

I had one programmer who took my notes & started coding & didn't ask ONE bloody question. This caused a whole host of problems b/c I didn't understand what was needed, how things were done etc.

I learned quite a lot about that.

I consider myself fortunate to have found the programmer I have now.

Take care


Michelle

>I had one programmer who took my notes & started coding & didn't ask ONE bloody question.
Now that would be the kind of person I would classify as a bad programmer. I can't think of anything that can be understood and written well without asking at least one question. People like that are either so arrogant that they think they know everything or too scared of looking stupid. Both qualities do more harm than anything.

A healthy ego is a good thing. It promotes the confidence, creativity, and independent thinking that good programmers need to write good code. A certain lack of social skill is understandable due to the hacker phenomenon. I would never turn someone away in an interview because they were unable to express themselves comfortably, but I would turn someone away (and tell them why) if they failed to at least try to talk to me when solving test problems.

The first thing that most people need to realize is that programming is rarely a solitary activity. Beginners and laymen tend to think that programmers sit in a dark room all alone, constantly writing code. In the professional world, programmers work in teams and thus need to know how to ask questions and give answers. They need to know how to weigh options, make recommendations, and explain those recommendations sufficiently to both programmers and non-programers. Anyone who is incapable of doing that fails to meet my expectations of a professional.

Well said. Of course in the real world there's often a layer of non-programming technical people shielding the programmers from the harsh world of the end user.

Whether analysts, helpdesk staff, or project managers, their task is to act as a kind of translators and intermediaries between two often disparate worlds.

While programmers and the end users of their products can talk, there's almost always a disparity brought about by completely different thought patterns.
The programmer thinks of how the product will do what it does, the user only thinks of the end result of that process.
They also often have different views of reality resulting in say a user interface designed by a programmer being extremely powerful but at the same time incomprehensible to the non-technical end user.