System programming vs Software Eng

[radc]

Hi there, I am studying software engineering on my 3rd year and from time to time I think about the job I am gonna do during rest of my life.As a result I look at the trends of todays IT and application development world. There is a significant shift from system programming to desktop, web and mobile application development in recent decades. The reason is simple, it is commerialy more beneficial as it finds a quick application in todays industry. As a result it is popular and easier to grasp to non expert programmers. Here i might be wrong, cause writing clean and effiecient code takes time and experience. Anyway, the hole point is that I see myself being a coder, writing applications for some business companies as well as spending my spare time for learning some new technologies or maybe high level languages in order not to fall behind the market. I just want to hear from members who has experience in industry as well as students of the forum what do you think about this? Recently I got interested in system programming, although my course mainly oriented on aplication development. So, i find system programming more exciting than just coding in Java or in Python.

[Narue]

I just want to hear from members who has experience in industry as well as students of the forum what do you think about this?

What do we think aboutwhat exactly? It comes as no surprise that the application side is growing more quickly than the systems side, and it has nothing to do with non-expert programmers grasping anything. Applications are closer to the users and thus meet business needs that change constantly. Systems are the magic that allows applications to run, but they're relatively static and there are already plenty of mature systems from which to choose.

[radc]

So what you say it that system programmers are in less demand rather than application developers? What about developing something absolutely different? We have alternative to Windows and it is good. Maybe system programming should have something new in itself to pick programming to a new level. I just don`t know. It won`t end like this anyway, we won`t end up programming programs/applications just because they are in demand on the market. I believe something new will be created.

[phorce]

Hi there, I am studying software engineering on my 3rd year and from time to time I think about the job I am gonna do during rest of my life.As a result I look at the trends of todays IT and application development world. There is a significant shift from system programming to desktop, web and mobile application development in recent decades. The reason is simple, it is commerialy more beneficial as it finds a quick application in todays industry. As a result it is popular and easier to grasp to non expert programmers. Here i might be wrong, cause writing clean and effiecient code takes time and experience. Anyway, the hole point is that I see myself being a coder, writing applications for some business companies as well as spending my spare time for learning some new technologies or maybe high level languages in order not to fall behind the market. I just want to hear from members who has experience in industry as well as students of the forum what do you think about this? Recently I got interested in system programming, although my course mainly oriented on aplication development. So, i find system programming more exciting than just coding in Java or in Python.

The industry is moving towards a more web and mobile application development, and the job market is flooded with PHP developers at the moment, especially in "open data".

I can see languages such as C++ and Java always having a place, however, very few will be available because of costing and time constraints (As you can see now).

I'm currently a student doing Computer Science but, I do more Web stuff (Even though I'm not taught it) I'll be off into a Web Tech industry OR researching. =)

P.S: I applied for a Internship at a company that required me to have attended "Hackathons" and use social collaborative applications such as "GitHub" so a University degree doesn't mean you can just get a job in the industry :)!

[Narue]

So what you say it that system programmers are in less demand rather than application developers?

Of course. That should be pretty obvious.It won`t end like this anyway, we won`t end up programming programs/applications just because they are in demand on the market.
When your belly is empty, you'll do what needs to be done to fill it. It's fine being an stubborn idealist when you're in school, but in the real world we need to be more practical.I believe something new will be created.
I'm confused as to the point of this thread. Are you asking about your career choices or trying to encourage some sort of philosophical orgy about systems programming?

[radc]

Narue, i am trying to do both. As for career I have already made a choice by starting uni 3 years ago.

[Narue]

Narue, i am trying to do both.

The two are mutually exclusive. As for what I understand to be your plan, it's sound. Apply yourself to your chosen field (systems programming) with appropriate gusto, but also continue to broaden your skill set (eg. web, application, and mobile programming). It's counter-intuitive, but a well rounded programmer is more likely to be hired than a specialist in all but niche positions.

[radc]

phorce, it seems that most businesses are based on web services what`s why they need web programmers to maintain and develop this. But according to stats C/C++ remains most popular so far. http://langpop.com/ etc...

[dheaven]

I personally think that low-level programming is the best thing to do when you're at the beginning of your career.

When you get older, perhaps you will no longer enjoy time-consuming (but much needed) optimizations in C or Assembly and perhaps you will want to do high-level programming using RAD tools and such.The experience gained as a system programmer may prove quite valuable then.

Also, if you only do high-level stuff, you will probably never know exactly how your applications work (but on the other side, one might not care about it).

[mikulucky]

What you really have to ask yourself is what do you want to do, not what the job market says. Take me for example. I'm currently on track for my career of working for government then do PhD and become a lecturer. This dream well lets say path has not changed since I was 14 Years old. Still done loads of web based development, and requirements engineering for other projects that I have no interest in, however as Narue said:

When your belly is empty, you'll do what needs to be done to fill it.

So do what you want to do, and consider anything else to be a fork that runs alongside, giving you experience and adding to your background for you to nail that job you really want.

As for learning what you want to do, Open Source work is great for this, as you do it in your spare time, and help others to normally create great things, if you dont like it then you know that you dont want to do it.I personally think that low-level programming is the best thing to do when you're at the beginning of your career.

Sorry I would have to disagree there, however I can see where your coming from, I believe as a new programmer, you should learn from the top down, learn about the tools, and different methodologies, learn to see everything as an object and so on. This way as you get further into it, then these tools and general good practises are engraved. As you get better, then go lower and lower into the code, trying to optimise and so on, put it this way, for your first day on a course having never programed do you want to do algorithmics? :D

Oh god I have waffled on, basically what I'm saying is Do what you want to do!!! And make sure that you enjoy it!!!

Hope this helps :)

[dheaven]

What you really have to ask yourself is what do you want to do, not what the job market says. Take me for example. I'm currently on track for my career of working for government then do PhD and become a lecturer. This dream well lets say path has not changed since I was 14 Years old. Still done loads of web based development, and requirements engineering for other projects that I have no interest in, however as Narue said:

So do what you want to do, and consider anything else to be a fork that runs alongside, giving you experience and adding to your background for you to nail that job you really want.

As for learning what you want to do, Open Source work is great for this, as you do it in your spare time, and help others to normally create great things, if you dont like it then you know that you dont want to do it.

Sorry I would have to disagree there, however I can see where your coming from, I believe as a new programmer, you should learn from the top down, learn about the tools, and different methodologies, learn to see everything as an object and so on. This way as you get further into it, then these tools and general good practises are engraved. As you get better, then go lower and lower into the code, trying to optimise and so on, put it this way, for your first day on a course having never programed do you want to do algorithmics? :D

Oh god I have waffled on, basically what I'm saying is Do what you want to do!!! And make sure that you enjoy it!!!

Hope this helps :)

I understand your point of view, but I wasn't referring to start learning programming using Assembly. When I said at the beginning of your career, I meant a first job. Also, I personally think that knowing a little bit about hardware can help become a better programmer.

[mikulucky]

I understand your point of view, but I wasn't referring to start learning programming using Assembly. When I said at the beginning of your career, I meant a first job. Also, I personally think that knowing a little bit about hardware can help become a better programmer.

Oh sorry for miss reading your post, yeah learning hardware can help, importantly memory management.

[WaltP]

Read Profession by Isaac Asimov. Maybe you're asking the wrong questions...

[Dexxta27]

What exactly is the difference between a System Programmer and a Software Engineer? I have seen the two terms being used interchangeably.