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Jan 5th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

hello world,

it seems that i´m lost in the wrong forum, but i could recommend everyone to go to JAVA immediately.

I´m in the programming business since 1969 and learned the trade with ALGOL/60, the mother of all algorithmic languages.
I´m using JAVA since 2003 and find it a relief after a short flirtation with C.
I don´t know C++, but JAVA is said to be built on it´s fundamentals.
There is a lot of documentation, forums etc, and SUN, the company that makes JAVA, is very user friendly, delivers everything for free AND has a pleasant antagony to Bill Gates & friends.

An advice for a real newbie: buy the cheapest book on JAVA you can get and start from there.

Get a life...get Java.

peter bondam

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Jan 5th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

what the heck are you all talking about?

peter

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Jan 5th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by p.bondam ...

hello world

Hi!

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by p.bondam ...

I´m in the programming business since 1969 and learned the trade with ALGOL/60, the mother of all algorithmic languages.
I´m using JAVA since 2003 and find it a relief after a short flirtation with C.

I'm curious. You've been programming since 1969 and had a short flirtation with C. I understand short as probably 5 years or less. You've been using Java since 2003, so what were you using for the rest of the time? ALGOL60? :eek:

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by p.bondam ...

I don´t know C++, but JAVA is said to be built on it´s fundamentals.
There is a lot of documentation, forums etc, and SUN, the company that makes JAVA, is very user friendly, delivers everything for free AND has a pleasant antagony to Bill Gates & friends.

I can't reply to this without seeming inflammatory. I'm sorry.

I see a few things wrong with your logic if you're trying to convince people to use Java instead of C++.

Most mainstream languages have a C ancestry. Being based on C++ isn't a selling point, it's a marketing ploy.
C++ has plenty of documentation and a huge community as well. If you know where to look, you can find information on anything about C++, just like Java.
I heard that Sun was just as vicious in business as Microsoft. The only difference is that Sun has decided to cash in on the open source wave rather than fight against it.
C++ is completely free. Even more so than Java, in fact, because you're not forced into the JVM platform.
C++ has nothing to do with Microsoft. I don't see how antagony to Bill Gates and friends implies that Java is a better choice than C++.

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by p.bondam ...

Get a life...get Java.

I tried Java. I even got the lapel pin. I didn't have any more of a life then than I do now.

Ravalon

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Jan 5th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

I wouldn't even consider java for the programs I write -- too damned slow. To me java is only useful in web development and there are probably 10 times more development environments than that. So "use only java" is just not practical or even desireable.

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Jan 5th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by p.bondam ...

it seems that i´m lost in the wrong forum, but i could recommend everyone to go to JAVA immediately.

Although you can write just about anything with Java, that doesn't mean you should. Just like using the right tools for a job, there is no end-all programming language or tool to use. The key is to know which is the best to use. Even C++, the superset of C is not better, it's different. Some projects may be better in C++, some are better in C. Which is why this discussion still exists.

Quote ...

An advice for a real newbie: buy the cheapest book on JAVA you can get and start from there.

I don't know about you... but I sure wouldn't just walk into a bookstore and blow 20 or 30 dollars on a cheap Java book. You're better off buying a good book, even if it costs a bit more than other books.

Quote ...

Get a life...get Java.

Alright, you try to write a 3D first person shooter in Java and let me know how it goes.

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by Ancient Dragon ...

To me java is only useful in web development and there are probably 10 times more development environments than that. So "use only java" is just not practical or even desireable.

Agreed - although for some tasks, Java is not far behind good C++ compilers (or sometimes even ahead), a fairly impressive feat for Sun, considering that it's all interpreted bytecode.

http://kano.net/javabench/
http://mathsrv.ku-eichstaett.de/MGF/...nch/Bench.html
http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html

Last edited by John A; Jan 5th, 2007 at 7:36 pm.

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Jan 6th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

I always think that a programmer should know what's under the hood. I think that starting with Assembly and then moving up is something that new programmers should always do. It means that you have a good grasp as to what is going on and can optimize your code by getting closer to the CPU. I think that there are too many drag 'n drop or copy 'n paste programmers out there which leads to unstable applications. And you have HLA or High-Level Assembler languages that have made it much easier to program in Assembly.

It's an unpopular opinion but I'm glad I took the time years ago to go through x86 and 6800 assembler classes (these were geared for embedded devices) as it gave me a very good understanding of what is going on in the CPU and how the memory is being organized and utilized. It really gives you ultimate control over your system as well.

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Jan 6th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by markdean ...

I always think that a programmer should know what's under the hood. I think that starting with Assembly and then moving up is something that new programmers should always do. It means that you have a good grasp as to what is going on and can optimize your code by getting closer to the CPU.

I disagree with the timeframe, but not the concept. Start with a higher level language like C/C++. Once you get a good grasp of programming concepts, then take assembler to see what's under the hood. Trying to learn the terse programming of assembler while trying to understand the concepts of programming in general is just too much IMO.

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by markdean ...

It's an unpopular opinion but I'm glad I took the time years ago to go through x86 and 6800 assembler classes (these were geared for embedded devices) as it gave me a very good understanding of what is going on in the CPU and how the memory is being organized and utilized. It really gives you ultimate control over your system as well.

I myself know PDP-10 and PDP-11 assembler as well as 80xxx, and have a basic understanding of a couple more, so I know where you are coming from. I do agree that knowing assembler is a great idea. It just shouldn't be the first language.

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Jan 6th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by WaltP ...

I disagree with the timeframe, but not the concept. Start with a higher level language like C/C++. Once you get a good grasp of programming concepts, then take assembler to see what's under the hood. Trying to learn the terse programming of assembler while trying to understand the concepts of programming in general is just too much IMO.

I agree with that. Another poind i'd like to add is that alot of people only pick up a programming language as a passing interest, or maybe study it as part of a non-technical course. IMHO, there'd be little point in working at such a low level for someone whose main focus is elsewhere (such as website design, or business-IT)

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Jan 6th, 2007

Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by markdean ...

I think that there are too many drag 'n drop or copy 'n paste programmers out there which leads to unstable applications.

Performance never has been a problem when working with Drag and Drop type of RAD languages or tools (VB, Realbasic). All the optimization related things are taken care by the interpreter or the compiler which comes along with it.

Also there are Project Managers, Team leaders etc to take care of such unstability. Either this or I am missing your point ?

~s.o.s~

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Aug 8th, 2009

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Re: Do i need C to learn C++?

Click to Expand / Collapse Quote originally posted by jan1024188 ...

Thats because when "Hello word" is printed on a screen program ends and cmd clooses...

If you are using Dev C++ which is what i have been using, i am a beginner too, i ran into the same problem.

Here is the line of code that you need in order to keep the cmd window open and you can see your work.
Place this command at the bottom of your code, right above the return command.
___________________
system("PAUSE");
___________________

So for example

//Example
#include <iostream>
int main()
{ //bla bla program code

system("PAUSE");
return 0; // or something else
}

This will solve your problem.

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