For anything that can be said that's bad about microsoft; they certainly encourage amateur developers at times, and that's good for the industry; encouraging more people to learn and use a general and reasonably powerful programming language rather than the modkit for their current favorite FPS/RPG isn't a bad thing. Ok, you wouldn't want to write Halo 4 in C# + XNA, but a professional dev team should know that anyway.

XNA isn't really a 'full' game framework. It does graphics, input and sound, it does some work towards importing graphics data; not much else. That aside, you can write games in C#+XNA, you can write games in Java, you can write games in Visual/QBasic. You could probably write games in COW ( http://www.bigzaphod.org/cow/ ) if you had a way to call graphics libraries or talk to a runtime.

Again though, my stance is that engines and high-load libraries *should be* written in C++ or a lower level language that compiles to machine code, where *should be* can be replaced with *nearly always are* if an irrefutable fact is desired. However, any language that compiles to equivalent machine code and exposes a neat C[++] call interface is equal in any metric that matters.

Personally, I wouldn't mind writing lower-load aspects of some of my projects in a more domain-specific language.. but.. I've yet to encounter one that really appeals to me.

Programming ...... if the programming is good the game will be fine and it takes a hell lot effort to make a game ..

OK. OK. OK. I get it. you guys are bubble bursters.

here i was happy in my microsoft sponsored illusion that if i work real hard at c# i can someday develop games. now it seems that i have little choice but learn c and c++! :-)

>> microsoft sponsored illusion

they had this article sometime back that all new game development for both windows and x box is going to be with XNA.

all amateur development.

Real xbox developers use the XDK which is handed out at great cost, in very limited numbers by microsoft

If you work real hard in C# you'll learn some neccessary skills and they'll transfer. Ask yourself this; do you seriously think that you, alone, are going to make a game that exceeds C#'s capabilities? If not, use C#! If you start 'a game' in C# and find it's beyond C#'s capabilities, for whatever reason; you'll have got quite proficient in many aspects of [games] programming, and you'll understand which parts would benefit from being written in another language, and why.

As jbennet implied - the major consoles all have devkits that only professional, established developers can get hold of. Whilst there are alternatives for amateurs, to some degree available in all of the popular languages; the fact is: if you do all the games programming you like, in every language, and learn everything; you're still an amateur until you're employed as a professional. I didn't learn C++ until I'd learnt and heavily used lots of other languages beforehand; that didn't make it particularly easier to learn C++, but I did learn alot of principles about programming games without the pressure of learning a complicated, unforgiving language at the same time. Now, not to brag, but I can knock up a 3D movement, collision detection and basic physics system, from scratch, in days; and I'd still say I'm "learning", because everytime I make one I do it slightly differently/better in some way. It took me months to do it the first time ( in C++; but I'd also experimented with many of the 3D principles, for at least a year before that, in Java ).

I doubt that anyone nay-saying here actually IS a professional game developer ( I certainly am not ); so don't let anyone here burst your bubble. Experiment, learn, etc.

>>burst bubble

lol. i was just kidding. the point is you guys made it clear that game development needed c++.

>>unforgiving language

if you were talking about c++ then you can say it again. the language is absolutely merciless. and i have heard that c is even worse.

>>experiment. learn.

i am planning to. i always suspected that is was going to be c++ but for a second i was hopefull. c# is a very easy language if you compare it with c++. :-)

c and c++ arent related. I hate it when people make that assumption. In fact, C# is a lot more like java

you probably meant to say C# and C++ arent related. true. i never implied otherwise.

in fact. there is no similarity between c# and c++ except that they are both curly bracket languages.

but if you meant to say c and c++ then you are wrong. they are very much related.

i meant c#

Yes C++ if very popular for game development. Also C language