Thanks for the reply, yet it seems to be the same sort of thing I already have. When I said ...."visual front end builder".... I meant the same sort of thing Access does when generating gforms or reports.... either direct control of what elements/fields go where on teh page, or wizards to help generate such, but using things like drag and drop, object selection then allocating origin of source etc. (make sense?), rather than a program to enable me to code php/mysql etc..... plenty of them available, and I think I have most of the rated ones! (LOL - I trawl the net so much, I end up with atleast 16 files a month that I have no idea what they are! Keep them though.. LOL)