Remove all mention of code tags from the site

[Salem]

Remove all phrases like this
- When posting programming code, encase it in [code], [code=syntax],

Remove all announcements like this
- Please use BB Code and Inlinecode tags

Remove all stickies like this
- Read This Before Posting

Remove the watermark at the back of the edit window

Why?
Because THEY DON'T BLOODY WORK!!!!!

Never, in the field of online forums, has so much been ignored by so many and understood by so few.

Noobs who get this right on the first attempt are so rare that they get +ve rep just for being awake. That's how rarely any of this stuff works. Chances are, that minority would have figured something out just from reading a few other posts and thinking, "hey, nice code formatting, how does that work?".

http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread140124.html
Just the latest in a long (and never ending) list of bone-heads who can't even get it right even when you explain it to them.

So just get rid of it all, and we can just go back to yelling at them when they screw up.

[John A]

I agree. This seems to be one of the few forums where code tag reminders can be "in your face" to all but the noobs. Either literally make it "in your face" (i.e. an automated system that won't let you post until you use code tags correctly) or just forget the whole thing and let the C and C++ forums sink into oblivion. Heck, I stopped regularly visiting there months ago.

[MidiMagic]

Why not just stop worrying about it? Post a little box above the edit window telling how to use them, and then forget it.

If they don't use the code tags, they don't use the code tags. Ignore it. The polar ice cap won't melt because they forgot the code tags.

[~s.o.s~]

> Why not just stop worrying about it?

Why? Because it ends up wasting precious time of all the people involved in the process; precious time which could have been otherwise used to help out people.

Leaving those things apart you would be surprised at the number of repeat offenders. I can understand people new to forums getting things wrong on their first attempt but repeating the same mistake after being nicely pointed in the right direction is insanity.

> So just get rid of it all, and we can just go back to yelling at them when they screw up.

Please don't; it feels bad to yell at someone only to be ignored. ;-)

> Heck, I stopped regularly visiting there months ago

I guess the same is the case with Java, or I should say the most active programming sub-forums out there. Why? Because most of them are the ones who end up multi posting their queries in hope of getting an answer from at least one of them.

[peter_budo]

I can report I have very good results of code tags use in web development section (specially in PHP and ASP/ASP.NET). Hence my user title ;)

[Ezzaral]

I'm just getting to the point I won't read code that isn't in code tags. I may reply that they need to post the code in tags, but if the code isn't formatted the question can go unanswered for all that I care.

[Ancient Dragon]

I usually issue warning and/or infraction for users with more than 5 posts who don't use code tags. And it normally has taken no more than one two-point infraction to get someone to mend his/her ways because I remind him that he could get banned for not using code tags, which would be a real shame.

And I often give a first-time poster good rep for taking the time to actually Read the Rules and use code tags correctly.

[Aia]

[...]
If they don't use the code tags, they don't use the code tags. Ignore it. The polar ice cap won't melt because they forgot the code tags.

Ignoring is going to make it worse.
There's a reason why some forms of conduct are not allow in a cinema. i.e. you are not allow to talk constantly in the middle of a movie. What would happen if that simple rule of behavior would not be enforced in such establishment?
No movie goer would step inside that theater.
Likewise there's reason to maintain some code posting rules. No many, but some, almost common sense, easy to follow. Otherwise, posting will degenerate to whatever the visitor set as standard.
I don't bring any solution to this conversation, other than preventing any post to be answered until correction to it has been made by OP. Perhaps, some automatic generated warning post follow-up, pointing to the proper way of posting code.

[William Hemsworth]

Maby a good idea would be to make a dialog appear just before submitting thats says (in a very big font) "USE CODE TAGS OR YOU WILL BE IGNORED OR YELLED AT!!!" for newbies who have less than 3-4 posts ? Perhaps that will get to em. ;)

[jasimp]

Maby a good idea would be to make a dialog appear just before submitting thats says (in a very big font) "USE CODE TAGS OR YOU WILL BE IGNORED OR YELLED AT!!!" for newbies who have less than 3-4 posts ? Perhaps that will get to em. ;)

It won't help, when confronted about not using code tags they will just ignore it, yell at us when no one does there work for them, and then leave. I think that would deter new members more than it would help.

[Nick Evan]

In the c++/c section 'someone' could add a piece of PHP code that checks if the post contains main( . If the post then doesn't contain any code-tags, show somekind of warning, or link to the "code tags explained" section.

This could work for some -not too stupid- newbies and would save the mods some time...

[~s.o.s~]

If I remember correctly, many such alternatives have been suggested previously (like detecting curly braces) but I guess Dani is against any such 'in your face' messages.

[Narue]

As I understand the issue, Dani isn't against an automated solution as long as it's generalized. Every time we bring up the issue, she asks us for a good way to handle checking for code tags with every language that Daniweb has a forum for. A good suggestion has yet to be made, so the issue still stands.

>In the c++/c section 'someone' could add a piece
>of PHP code that checks if the post contains main(
And if the post is a snippet without main? A good test is for an opening brace. If the text contains an opening brace, it's a pretty good assumption that the text is code in the C++, C, Java, and C# forums. However, that approach doesn't work well for pretty much any of the other forums, so it fails the generality test.

The only other option is to be excessively strict about code tags (ie. warn, infract, and ban with extreme prejudice), and that's counter-productive if the goal is keeping people around. :icon_rolleyes:

Now for the original request in this thread:

>Remove all mention of code tags from the site
That's a stupid idea, it's easy to figure out why, and the extremity of the suggestion leads me to believe that you're simply being melodramatic.

Removing all mention of code tags (ie. instructions and reminders) would destroy any positive effect that they have. It's silly to believe that the instructions and reminders are 100% ineffective, but they would be if we removed them.

I'm particularly disinclined to advocate returning to a state where there are unwritten rules. Even if people ignore the rules, the very fact that they're documented means we (everyone, not just moderators) have a better chance of enforcing them without seeming arbitrary and emotional.

Finally, instructions and reminders help make Daniweb more user-friendly. It's that appearance that makes us so attractive to visitors. Removing the instructions would work to defeat the long process of making Daniweb accessible to new members.

[~s.o.s~]

But I am pretty sure everyone here realizes that there is *no* generic solution. How can one go about applying the same set of rules to the C and the Ruby forums? So no, if what we require is a generic solution, parsing the post contents is not the way to go. If specific solutions for each language forums are welcome, then yes, parsing makes it possible though it would still lend to a brittle solution (in braceless languages what would we search for? def? do? while?).

[Narue]

>How can one go about applying the same set of rules to the C and the Ruby forums?
My suggestion was to apply a language specific algorithm to the individual forums. At the very least we can cover the most active forums with a handful of cases and solve the majority of the problem. But I'm not the one writing the code to do this, Dani is. If she doesn't feel a solution is good enough, it won't get implemented, and there's a team of mods available to do the work manually.

[WaltP]

Maybe for a member's first 5 posts a message displays with the high points of posting and what may happen if ignored.

[John A]

They manage to ignore all the other hints we throw at them, what makes you think they'd read this one?

[William Hemsworth]

>They manage to ignore all the other hints we throw at them, what makes you think they'd read this one?

Force them to read it :)
Make it appear for 20 seconds on the screen with no way to escape.

[peter_budo]

>They manage to ignore all the other hints we throw at them, what makes you think they'd read this one?

Force them to read it :)
Make it appear for 20 seconds on the screen with no way to escape.

That will not help as you will loose members by forcing it that way

[William Hemsworth]

>That will not help as you will loose members by forcing it that way
Loose members ?? I doubt it, and quite frankly any member who leaves the site after 20 seconds who cant be bothered to read the instructions doesn't really deserve to be here. :icon_wink:

[jasimp]

quite frankly any member who leaves the site after 20 seconds who cant be bothered to read the instructions doesn't really deserve to be here. :icon_wink:

Suppose a really great programmer or someone who knows XP and hardware inside and out, or someone like crunchie who is a genius when it comes to virus removal, joins Daniwed, and they are forced to read something they don't want to. Right there they might decide we don't deserve to have them. Then we would lose a potentially great member. I think it is better to have them join, have the option of reading the rules and if they break them often enough they will be banned; ridding us of their presence. Much better to lose an awful member, than a potentially great one.