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//QUESTION: Where does it say you can't post code or you'll get an infraction?????

Infraction System
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Last Post by caut_baia
Featured Replies
  • 1
    WaltP 2,905   6 Years Ago

    [QUOTE=caut_baia;]Thank you fbody but i still can't see a rule resembling this restriction.It is addressed to those who post vague questions and ask for code without providing evidence of trying.Well this didn't happen in my posts but at the time when i first started posting .. i admit i didn't … Read More

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    ~s.o.s~ 2,560   6 Years Ago

    [quote]It wasn't meant to sound like an attack and i apologise.After you sent me that message i've re read the rules and i couldn't find myself breaking any.I'm not saying i don't deserve my down-reps but i definitely don't deserve all of them.I apologise for my bad english and i … Read More

  • What you are missing, my boy, is the point of the whole exercise. The point is to help people learn. Every problem, every misunderstanding, every "stupid" mistake is a chance to learn something. If you post the solution, soup to nuts, you deprive someone of a chance to learn from … Read More

  • I'm not sure I buy into this idea that if one provides code, they "deprive" or "ruin" anybody's thinking process. Maybe it's because I'm older, have already "been there, done that" as far as formal schooling goes, and I'm a professional programmer now. I've already proved myself and hence no … Read More

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    ~s.o.s~ 2,560   6 Years Ago

    [quote]I'm not sure I buy into this idea that if one provides code, they "deprive" or "ruin" anybody's thinking process. Maybe it's because I'm older, have already "been there, done that" as far as formal schooling goes, and I'm a professional programmer now. I've already proved myself and hence no … Read More

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Well it's been answered by WaltP who said something like "Cause i said so".So .. you know maybe you should include that rule somewhere up there or state that every poster that had donated 5 bucks to daniweb can come with his own set of rules and harass you anyway he likes.Everyone posts code and i've never ever ever seen reputation points taken or daunting warnings like "hey .. you'll get an infraction and eventually get banned".Not even spoonlicker didn't manage to gather as many negative rep points.Anyway .. thread solved.Or whatever

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Thank you fbody but i still can't see a rule resembling this restriction.It is addressed to those who post vague questions and ask for code without providing evidence of trying.Well this didn't happen in my posts but at the time when i first started posting .. i admit i didn't read the rules right away but now i was actually trying to abide them.What?Oh .. and where did you see Waltp.. frowns on stackoverflow.com where everybody is posting relevant pieces of code to actually help each other and not vague phrases lile "do this .. do that .. erm .. no no no try that instead".From your private message i understand this is your forum and your site i can play by your own rules which stem from your state of being .. (not being written anywhere) or "provide my great knowledge elsewhere".Is that really the politics on daniweb?Cause if so .. i will just delete my account (not sure if i'm allowed though)

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So waltp.Can you post some pseudocode or something so i can actually try to reach your level of comprehension and mark this thread as solved?Or will you just remove the thread or ban me?I really really don't understand how is it that i should post.Is it there a pattern ?Should i sneak errors inside the posted code?Would that help?Or should i post a line followed by a riddle .. and then another line.. or what ?Please sprinkle some clarity upon me and i will be very very thankful and abiding.

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Posting code isn't the problem. It's the situation and type of code posted.

Read this.

Yes, as cscgal says:

Though we are all here to help, please don't expect quick solutions to your homework. We'll help you get started, exchange algorithm ideas, how-to's, etc. but only if you show that you're willing to put in effort as well.

So, to the question "Can anyone tell me what am i missing?", it's listening to long-time members, moderators, etc. and doing your own thing against their recommendations.

And consider yourself lucky. This thread is in direct violation of the Keep it Organized rule "Do read the forum description to ensure it is is relevant for your posting". This post does not belong in the C++ forum. So, if you really want to complain about rules...

And speaking of rules, the rules of English require a SPACE or two after punctuation. Don't know about your native language, but here the rule is "Do post in full-sentence English" (Keep it Clear). I think we've let that slide for over 200 posts, haven't we?

All we're asking is if someone suggests that you stop doing something, then stop.

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Thank you fbody but i still can't see a rule resembling this restriction.It is addressed to those who post vague questions and ask for code without providing evidence of trying.Well this didn't happen in my posts but at the time when i first started posting .. i admit i didn't read the rules right away but now i was actually trying to abide them.What?Oh .. and where did you see Waltp.. frowns on stackoverflow.com where everybody is posting relevant pieces of code to actually help each other and not vague phrases lile "do this .. do that .. erm .. no no no try that instead".From your private message i understand this is your forum and your site i can play by your own rules which stem from your state of being .. (not being written anywhere) or "provide my great knowledge elsewhere".Is that really the politics on daniweb?Cause if so .. i will just delete my account (not sure if i'm allowed though)

Ahh, so now we're down to personal attacks, even though I've down-repped you once and others have been down-repping you since you started.

Read cscgal's statement again "please don't expect quick solutions to your homework." Read between the lines. Use the logic necessary in programming for more than programming. What's that statement say from the helping side of the post? Isn't posting full working code a quick solution? N'est-ce pas?

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It wasn't meant to sound like an attack and i apologise.After you sent me that message i've re read the rules and i couldn't find myself breaking any.I'm not saying i don't deserve my down-reps but i definitely don't deserve all of them.I apologise for my bad english and i would like to see you handling with my language :).I didn't know you had a forum for complains so my bad again.My personal opinion is that you should have a rule saying you can't post full solutions and i will try to stick with this not yet implemented rule if that's ok with you.I didn't really think i should take it from anyone else but a moderator since you're the person in charge here but i did mind the 8 down reps before telling me what i did wrong.Anyway i'm sorry for this and i hope i didn't offended you in any way.

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>>frowns on stackoverflow.com where everybody is posting relevant pieces of code to actually help each other and not vague phrases

On SO, almost any post that looks anything like a homework/exam question is closed down by moderators in a matter of minutes. Here we rarely shut-down people, we help people who are learning and are having problems with something, whether they are doing it for course credits or personal hobby/interest. In either case, posting ready-to-serve solutions does not help the person asking the questions.

The rules of daniweb are mostly oriented towards the people who ask questions, it is understood that the people who answer them will self-moderate (they usually do, I had a few down-reps myself when I started, but then I learn the trade). You may have a point there, it might be good to have a set of rules laid out specifically for posting to answer questions.

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On top of that, why must there be a rule written down before you won't do something? If multiple people say "don't do it", just don't do it. There is no specific law in my country that say's "when in a crowded movie theater, don't yell FIRE!" But if you do it, you will get arrested anyway.

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It wasn't meant to sound like an attack and i apologise.After you sent me that message i've re read the rules and i couldn't find myself breaking any.I'm not saying i don't deserve my down-reps but i definitely don't deserve all of them.I apologise for my bad english and i would like to see you handling with my language .I didn't know you had a forum for complains so my bad again.My personal opinion is that you should have a rule saying you can't post full solutions and i will try to stick with this not yet implemented rule if that's ok with you.I didn't really think i should take it from anyone else but a moderator since you're the person in charge here but i did mind the 8 down reps before telling me what i did wrong.Anyway i'm sorry for this and i hope i didn't offended you in any way.

No one can infract you for posting complete solutions (the reason why you haven't received an infraction till now). Reputation, is a different matter. Unless you have a member specifically targeting you with -ve rep, there is little we can do; after all, reputation was meant to be a measure of how individual members feel about the post. If most of the regulars of C++ forum are against posting complete solutions, you would get downvoted.

You have two choices:

  • Continue posting complete solutions if you think that's the right way. I'm pretty sure you have been already told about *why* its bad to post complete solutions but if the reasons don't suit your taste, nothing can be done
  • Stop posting complete solutions and try driving members to think up of a solution on their own. Teaching someone is *always* a rewarding experience because it's infinitely more difficult that posting complete solutions and saying "here ya go, enjoy mate!".

I won't downvote your *complete* solutions but leave you off to shoulder the burden of spoonfeeding someone and ruining their thinking capability. Good luck. :)

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What you are missing, my boy, is the point of the whole exercise. The point is to help people learn. Every problem, every misunderstanding, every "stupid" mistake is a chance to learn something. If you post the solution, soup to nuts, you deprive someone of a chance to learn from that mistake. That's no help to them.

Look at this thread: http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/java/threads/352735 to see what I'm talking about.

I could have just told this guy "you missed the break statements in your switch", and he'd have gone and put the break statements in, and maybe remembered something about that. I could have rewritten the code, and then he'd maybe have noticed what I fixed, but probably not. But since I made him do the work of finding the error, a) he won't ever make that mistake again and b) he'll have a new tool in his kit for finding his next bug.

If you want to help someone, you have to try to solve their real problem. The real problem isn't "this piece of code doesn't run", the real problem is "I don't know how to find and fix this error".

Obviously you have some smarts when it comes to programming. If you try a different approach, I think you could really help a lot of people.

Edited by jon.kiparsky: typo

Votes + Comments
Well said
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I'm not sure I buy into this idea that if one provides code, they "deprive" or "ruin" anybody's thinking process. Maybe it's because I'm older, have already "been there, done that" as far as formal schooling goes, and I'm a professional programmer now. I've already proved myself and hence no longer need the "if I just give it you, you'll never learn to think for yourself" lecture. I give that lecture to my ten year old nephew, but I know him and feel somewhat responsible for instilling good habits in him. Yeah, I know all sorts of students come here with homework dumps and, if given the verbatim code, won't put any effort into it and hence never learn to think.

But that's hardly our fault. This is supposed to be a forum for adult "IT Professionals", not 10 year olds. If you want to learn to think, someone dumping the full code on you doesn't stop you. You can and should take the assignment further than what the teacher requires. Sometimes the BEST way to learn is to get the full code from someone who knows how to do it, then STUDYING it till you understand it rather than mindlessly turning it in. I like to try to mentor people in a "teach you to fish" sort of why, but I take no blame at all if I give them the full answer and they don't learn anything. Anyone who wants to learn learns.

But be that as it may, there's also such a thing as "situational awareness", which means that if everyone else thinks one way and you think another, sometimes you just bow to the majority even if you think you're right, and that's what you're missing, caut_baia. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When on Daniweb, don't post the full solutions.

Votes + Comments
Thank you.Exactly my point
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I'm not sure I buy into this idea that if one provides code, they "deprive" or "ruin" anybody's thinking process. Maybe it's because I'm older, have already "been there, done that" as far as formal schooling goes, and I'm a professional programmer now. I've already proved myself and hence no longer need the "if I just give it you, you'll never learn to think for yourself" lecture. I give that lecture to my ten year old nephew, but I know him and feel somewhat responsible for instilling good habits in him. Yeah, I know all sorts of students come here with homework dumps and, if given the verbatim code, won't put any effort into it and hence never learn to think.

IMO it's got nothing to do with age (after all almost everyone advocating it in this thread is a middle aged bloke [rude assumption? maybe :>); it's just a matter of whether you want to give a solution to the OP or want to go out of your way and help him reach the solution, nothing more, nothing less.

There are all kinds of students who post here; those who already have the solution and want to understand how it works, those who don't have the solution and won't mind a ready solution but at the same time have a desire to learn something new and those who have no intention of learning. Posting code is a much bigger problem in a thread which already has an ongoing dialog. It's basically a slap on the face of someone helping out to post the solution on the 2nd/3rd page of an ongoing discussion.

But that's hardly our fault. This is supposed to be a forum for adult "IT Professionals"

You would be surprised at what "adult IT professionals" are capable of doing when left to their own devices. Like someone said "An army without discipline is just a bunch of rogue with weapons". Of course, YMMV, c'est la vie. :-)

Edited by ~s.o.s~: n/a

Votes + Comments
Agreed
"It's basically a slap on the face of someone helping out to post the solution on the 2nd/3rd page of an ongoing discussion." -thank you.
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I've remained reticent on this issue because I have dealt with the original poster in the past. He knows I that became the most irate when he banged out a solution to a problem and pasted it into the box, usually leaving no explanation. He underestimates the fact that any one of us could have done the same thing, but those who have taken the route of trying to explain something are punished.

If you want to help someone, you have to try to solve their real problem.

I agree. I would say for the majority, most of these students seeking help have been given snippets and samples already in their classes, and they are not able to extrapolate what they know. If someone really and truly needs a complete concrete example, I might illustrate a portion of it, but I leave the incorporation of that into their example/homework up to them.

But that's hardly our fault.

I understand what you are trying to say, but at the same time, if you give a child a book of matches to play with, you can't say "I didn't know he would burn down the church." Obviously, the posters are not children, but if people are not given a chance to plagiarize, they can't.

It's basically a slap on the face of someone helping out to post the solution on the 2nd/3rd page of an ongoing discussion.

I can think of maybe one time that I was explaining something,someone else stepped in and gave a ready-made solution, and the OP actually said "No, I want to understand this."
The rest of the time, not so much. I do consider that a slap in the face. If we could all get answers instead of doing homework and taking tests, education would be a much smoother endeavor, but in the end, the productivity would be nil.

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I think the point was made in this matter.I will try conforming with the unstated rules of daniweb though i totally agree with VernonDozier and i already told jonsca once about my opinion ("if someone is interested in learning will not be tempted to cheat himself").You can't stop people having opinions but you can suppress their actions which is what josca tries and whose opinion i respect , just do not agree with.You can't assume that a poster is a ten year old kid and ask for his age before trying to answer his question as much as you can't have a general rule that you should take everyone by their hand and guide them towards an answer like you would do with a three year old that learns how to walk.The kid with the match is a bitter and totally misplaced comparison.
And no jonsca i'm not underestimating your knowledge but i never saw you taking the time to write down a piece of code that works and can actually help.You really should try to understand that there are different ways of sharing your thoughts without suppressing other people's ideas.
Thank you ~s.o.s~ for making your point with calm and sense(unlike others).And thank you VernonDozier for your advice.

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