Tab error

[Wojciech_1]

When in edit window and press TAB key it just indent paragraph. It should set focus to next focusable item instead.

[deceptikon]

That's by design. The editor isn't a mere text field, it's an actual text editor supporting Markdown where indentation is significant. If tab moved to the next page element, creating code blocks manually would be tedious at best.

[Wojciech_1]

I agree but Markdown also supports (un)focusing so it should not make a difference. Or perhaps, add one more button where user can toggle TAB behaviour....would be clearer

[deceptikon]

Markdown itself is just a text format, it doesn't regulate how web elements work together that I'm aware of. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of Markdown-compatible editors do offer that feature. Ours does not, last I checked, so we would need to make further customizations to incorporate it. Off the top of my head, it wouldn't be a trivial change. Not impossible, certainly, but not as simple as flipping a switch.

To be useful the button would need to be persistent in the user's options rather than ad hoc, otherwise I'd question the viability of enabling/disabling tabbed focus by clicking a button versus simply clicking out of the editor. ;)

I don't disagree that the option is possible, though I'd be very interested in seeing statistics on how many people would actually use it. If only a handful of folks out of ~1M members would then I can't see the benefit justifying the cost of development. Though Dani might throw it in during one of her late night hacking sessions just because. It's happened before.

[Wojciech_1]

There are users here and there are user profiles associated with said users, so this setting behind switch can be stored as, say, hidden field within user profile.....

I know that incorporating this means work to be done, but I think its worth it.

[Reverend Jim]

Personally, I like it the way it works now.

[Wojciech_1]

Ive googled quite alot on this only to find it requires changing default Markdown files. But still its worth changing.

[Dani]

Are you talking about an option on a per-member basis that defines how the editor handles tabs? (With the alternative to the current working solution being that tab loses focus and code can only be entered through the existing Code button in the editor toolbar)?

I am against doing this, unfortunately. Firstly, I've been on a mission to make the control panel as absolutely seamless and option-free as possible. I don't like a billion options that end up confusing the end-user and give a difference user experience to everyone. I am a fan of consistency.

I can just imagine how many times we'll run into people making changes in their control panel, not fully comprehending the repercussions, and then complaining they can't post code snippets. Then we'll run into those well-meaning members who reply saying "Just highlight all your code and press tab", and it won't work for them, and we'll end up with everyone having a different user experience, and it will just be a big mess.

Right now, we don't have any huge issues with people being able to post code snippets, and I like it that way. I don't see the advantage of adding to the confusion.

There's may be a point to be made with regard to accessibility. I think most users are familiar with TAB = next tabstop. How do you access the next control from the editor?

Once the editor gains focus, that's the end of it. I can imagine how frustrating this could be to a keyboard user. In addition, not all the toolbar items on the editor seem to have shortcuts.

[Wojciech_1]

@Dani - you are talking about consistency and thats rigth thing to do. But - I have nothing against letting user decides how s/he wants the site to look like (thats why there are options stored in user profile rather than globally for whole site). And you dont have to have site overloaded with switches, options, etc..... on the other hand - removing options from cp does not make it seamless.

As of confusion - look in cp's of many other CMS, etc... there are options available and they are described underneath, so it is clear what each option does.... it would not be hard to introduce sth like this here.... Im sure that once introduced, your second-from-end paragraph will be false one.

Why not make user experience easier?

[Reverend Jim]

Tab is not necessarily next control. When I am editing text in a multiline edit box I expect certain formatting features to work. Enter should start a new line and Tab should insert a tab. Let's say I have to correct the mis-entry of code for a user (and this happens a lot). I can select one or more lines and press Tab and the selected code is indented. It's certainly easier and more intuitive than selecting code, clicking Code then clicking Insert Code. Can you imagine how much more difficult it would have been otherwise to correct all that code when we edited all those thousands of old posts a while back?

[Wojciech_1]

@Reverend - I do not see a point of what you've written, sorry.... For me - TAB switches between controls; shift+TAB => switches in reverse mode. Thats it.

[Reverend Jim]

I could see that for single line text entry but not for multi-line. Just my preference of course.

Out of interest how do you get out of the trench that is the editor without a mouse?

[Wojciech_1]

by pressing TAB key multiple times as of TAB = next element gains focus...

[Reverend Jim]

Out of interest how do you get out of the trench that is the editor without a mouse?

If you don't have a mouse then you are probably not running an OS with a GUI. Be reasonable; do it my way ;-P

by pressing TAB key multiple times as of TAB = next element gains focus...

Not once the user is in the editor part of the editor. (!)

If you don't have a mouse then you are probably not running an OS with a GUI. Be reasonable; do it my way ;-P

Not being obtuse. Well, yes I suppose I am now I think about it. Some people may not use a mouse for some reason (visually impaired maybe??), so a control that traps the focus "into a trench" is verging on being silly. Or am I missing something? Also some people feel more at home when working with key commands. I'm probably one of them. I use my mouse as little as possible. I have one of these ridiculous HP touchpads that has a control zone and outside columns that call all flavours of W8 weirdness if you brush them slightly. I am going slowly insane with it. So, give me a key command, chop the bloody mouse's head off already!

[Reverend Jim]

visually impaired maybe

OK. I hadn't considered that, although I can't imagine how someone who is so visually impaired as to not use a mouse could manage to use ANY gui so the tab point becomes moot.

[Dani]

Agreed, I hadn't considered that either. I'll see if I can come up with a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl+tab???) that can get you out of the trench. It's going to take some research to discover a keyboard shortcut that doesn't break/overwrite any native browser or OS functionality.

I just tried Ctrl+tab and it jumped to the next browser tab. Don't want to lose that one ... Recommendations anyone?

[cereal]

I just tried Ctrl+tab and it jumped to the next browser tab.

Same here on Chrome. In Ubuntu Alt Tab is used to switch the windows in the same workspace. Maybe Shift Tab? It seems free, at least in Ubuntu.

[Wojciech_1]

Ctrl+Shift+Tab; its free in every OS, its the easiest to remember (all three buttons are one after another (from bottom to top)), and can be pressed using one hand.

[cereal]

@Wojciech_1

Ctrl Tab focuses the next tab, Ctrl Shift Tab the previous.

[Wojciech_1]

what software this applies to? or did you mean alt+shift+tab? this indeed takes you one tab backwards.

[deceptikon]

what software this applies to?

All major browsers that support tabbed pages. When we're talking about Daniweb, it's fairly safe to assume that the hosting browser is the most relevant software involved. ;)

[Wojciech_1]

So not all as Ive alt+shift+tab to take me back not ctrl+shift+tab......

[deceptikon]

What browser and version are you using?

[Wojciech_1]

FF the newest dev edition (why not to use it?)

[deceptikon]

Mozilla disagrees with you. Ctrl+Tab navigates to the next tab, and Ctrl+Shift+Tab navigates to the previous tab. If your behavior is different, that could be something about the dev edition, or you have an extension installed that changes default behavior, or some other application is running that captures and interprets key strokes.

When visiting Daniweb, do you have any of the developer tool windows open?

[Wojciech_1]

no dev window is closed. Why?

[deceptikon]

no dev window is closed. Why?

It's called troubleshooting. I'm asking potentially relevant questions to pinpoint why your browser isn't exhibiting normal behavior. Last night I tested the top 5 browsers (Chrome, FireFox, IE, Opera, and Safari) and they all function as expected.

Anyway, since Ctrl+Tab and Ctrl+Shift+Tab are both built-in shortcuts in all major tabbed browsers, we cannot use those combinations to do something different on a page. It would be like trying to override Ctrl+Alt+Delete in a Windows desktop application. Possible, but generally a bad idea.