Dazah

[Dani]

Hi,

Unfortunately all of the Dazah integration stuff with DaniWeb is taking much longer than anticipated. I'm still working to try to get it out for you guys, but it's just taking a really long time.

That being said, now that the concept of a Dazah login has kind of settled in, for the most part, do you find it a very poor experience, indifferent, etc.? I know you guys aren't really seeing the full benefits of Dazah quite yet, but I just want to make sure that it's not a worse experience than without it.

[Aeonix]

To start things off, it was implemented without my knowing, not that you need to report me to it, it's your site, not mine, but it would be nice if you gave some beforehand warning. And if you did, I didn't notice, so it's my fault then, but then again, nobody's at fault.

I couldn't login at all with my data, remained confused (banned?). You can see inactivity for some time in my profile. It told me to create an account, but each time it timed me out. I couldn't register, couldn't login, could eventually try crying in the corner.

Recently I revisted in hope it changed, and it kinda did, it still tries to force me into Dazah, but afterwards asks about DaniWeb login, which is fair enough. So yea, I'm not seeing any positive stuff from Dazah. At all. I understand that it helps letting some fresh air into DaniWeb, but for me personally, that wasn't fun.

It has been pain at start, blocked me in middle-life and still adds new layer of unneccessary delay in it's current life. But if it helps DaniWeb. Well, prices need to be paid.

Generally not happy about it. Definitely not a bad idea, but I think developers have yet to call it "Dazah Beta". Not that I know anything about programming.

(PS: What is a "We give your users the ability to discover and connect through a patent-pending, robust matching algorithm.", how are we being matched?)

[Dani]

(PS: What is a "We give your users the ability to discover and connect through a patent-pending, robust matching algorithm.", how are we being matched?)

When you ask a question, and it intelligently picks people likely to be able to answer your question, then you're being matched through Dazah.

When you want to search for members experienced at specific skills using our Member Search (https://www.daniweb.com/members/search), then you're being matched through Dazah.

[Dani]

it still tries to force me into Dazah, but afterwards asks about DaniWeb login, which is fair enough

Why are you unable to log in with your email address and password? The only thing that really changed was we use email addresses for login instead of usernames. The fact that it asks you to use your DaniWeb credentials is actually just a UI/UX trick that does nothing except for replace the word email with the word username.

[Aeonix]

Why are you unable to log in with your email address and password?

Because "it doesn't exist". I need input "[e-mail]" and password "aaa", then it asks me "Would you like to login using DaniWeb creds", I approve and then username "Aeonix" and then password "password123". My email doesn't exist, and so far I recall I don't remember using email to login.

The fact that it asks you to use your DaniWeb credentials is actually just a UI/UX trick that does nothing except for replace the word email with the word username.

I'll let you know, if I can login using regular name instead of email.

[Aeonix]

Nope.

"Aeonix" doesn't contain a @, please insert @.

Or something equivalent. I really need to input wrong mail for it to let me use my name.

[Dani]

Like I said, UI/UX thing ;)

Why not just enter your email address?

[cereal]

Hi Dani! :D

I have few points:

A

I still not receive emails (newsletter, notifications) with my registration email address (the Receive Community-related Email? issue). I only receive the monthly newsletter with the email address of the other account. To watch an article I have to use that account from another browser, otherwise I don't get anything.

B

My old private messages are all in the other account.

C

I edited my Dazah profile to NOT display my name, but here in the forum is still shown in my Profile & CV pages.

Sincerly, I'm here just to ask or reply few questions in the forums, not to network. I think I've understood what you want to achieve, but these changes made me feel a bit unconfortable.

[Aeonix]

On top of it, when I log out and click "Log In" button, I get automatically logged in.
Maybe other people see convinience in being able to relogin, but I see security threat.

When I logout I expect nobody being able to login after me, without my password. Instead they just can click on "Log In" button. Not cool. :(

Oh and trying to put in email, fails, "can't login", and I get offer to switch to DaniWeb username input.

[Dani]

cereal,

If I understand you correctly, you have two DaniWeb accounts (one you use, one you don't) and two Dazah accounts (one you use, one you don't). However, they are criss-crossed.

The DaniWeb account you use is attached to the Dazah messaging account you don't use. And the DaniWeb account you don't use is attached to the Dazah messaging account you do use.

There's an easy fix to this ... hopefully ;)

1. Go to your DaniWeb Edit Profile page at https://www.daniweb.com/members/edit_profile while logged in as cereal
2. Take note of the green blurb that says the Dazah email address currently associated with your cereal account
3. Click the red button to associate your cereal account with a different Dazah account
4. Log in with the other Dazah account ... the one that is associated with all your messages (If you are already logged into Dazah, click the 'Switch User' link)
5. That should do the trick to attach your DaniWeb cereal account with the correct Dazah account that has all of your messages

One of the purposes of Dazah is to have a single sign on across not just DaniWeb, but other communities you may choose to participate in that want to take advantage of Dazah's messaging system.

For that reason, your Dazah account follows you across all the Dazah communities you choose to participate in, DaniWeb included. Stuff attached to you, as a person, and not DaniWeb specific (such as your name) are attached to your Dazah account.

You can change your name associated with your Dazah account by modifying your Dazah profile at https://www.dazah.com/profile/update

[Dani]

That should do the trick to attach your DaniWeb cereal account with the correct Dazah account that has all of your messages

Just to clarify, that should attach your DaniWeb cereal account with the Dazah account that has both the correct email address as well as all of your messages.

[Dani]

When I logout I expect nobody being able to login after me, without my password. Instead they just can click on "Log In" button. Not cool. :(

Let me ask you a question. Suppose you keep yourself logged into Facebook on your computer.

Then, for the sake of argument, you click "Log in With Facebook" on a random site, and it automatically logs you in. It does this because you're using Facebook to authenticate, and you're already logged into Facebook on the computer.

It's the same thing here. You're using "Log in With Dazah" and you're already logged into Dazah on the computer.

If you don't want this "convenience", then go to https://www.dazah.com, log out, and then the next time you log back in, don't use the checkbox saying to keep yourself logged in.

[cereal]

Thank you Dani,

no way, by following your directions I get:

A different DaniWeb member is already associated with this Dazah user account.

Let me recap:

• my current account (cereal) is the first account;
• I used to login by submitting email address & password;
• when the Dazah sign in procedure was introduced, I was not able to access, so I used Google G+, which in practice pointed to the same email address of my manual sign in;
• by using Google G+ I thought I could merge it with my current account, instead I got a brand new account (_1);
• the new account, however, got private messages, karma points, endorsments;
• when I wrote you about the issue, through email messages, you fixed by moving back some data to the first account (cereal);
• since then has been mess.

I suppose this is caused by the email address, so I applied plus addressing to both Dazah accounts (+alpha & +bravo) to understand if this makes a difference:

• if I manually sign in through +alpha which should be cereal and instead it appears to be _1, and I try to Continue as +alpha, I get:

  A different DaniWeb member is already associated with this Dazah user account.

• if I click switch user I get back to the Dazah login page

• if I sign in through Google G+ which should be _1 I end up into +bravo which is cereal

• if I manually sign in through +bravo I get cereal, at this point I feel lost

If you think this is difficult to fix, I can change the approach: create a new email address, sign up for a new account and forget about cereal & _1.

[Dani]

A different DaniWeb member is already associated with this Dazah user account.

Can you try again and let me know if the results are as you intend them this time?

If you think this is difficult to fix, I can change the approach: create a new email address, sign up for a new account and forget about cereal & _1.

It's actually a very easy fix to manually make the database change. I'm trying to get to the root of the UX problem that is causing frustration probably for more than just you.

[tinstaafl]

Something I've been meaning to bring up for sometime. I can't login on Chrome Mobile. I get the sign in page, but then it just goes back to the generic home page with the login link.

[Dani]

Are you using an iPhone or Android? Can you please clarify what happens? You successfully log in and then when it redirects you, you aren't logged in? Like a cookie issue?

[Dani]

I'm tying this from chrome for iOS. Logged in and working fine.

[cereal]

Can you try again and let me know if the results are as you intend them this time?

You're awesome Dani, now it works fine, thank you! :D

[tinstaafl]

I'm using Android. It could be a cookie issue, I guess, though I haven't messed with any settings and there haven't been any warnings about not being able to set a cookie. It doesn't present any error message, the login is just basically ignored, and I'm re-directed to the home page. When I look at the top menu it only shows links to join or login .

[jkon]

Dani you seem to really believe in Dazah. That's great , just don't mess it with DaniWeb till Dazah will have its own critical amount of users. Don't expect to happen the other way around , to make Dazah great using DaniWeb users , the only thing that will resolve that is to loose even more in DaniWeb.

I tried Dazah for some hours and still I can't figure out its purpose. So this is a SERIUS business model problem. You got me to try it because I am an ardent member here , and I tried it for hours and still I don't understand what is about, by what is about means “what makes better for me now?” , not your idea for how Dazah will be in 2 years , NOW . If it isn't useful I will not use it.

Dani once upon a time DaniWeb was great. Think what happened and isn't anymore and make your choices. Now you seem to dig DaniWeb in Dazah dust.

Its great that you are passionate about Dazah. We are in DaniWeb , if you don't bring even the slightest passion of that here , DaniWeb will continue to fade.

I have three start ups there that hold that are paused because of me , because I prioritize things. I know that to get rich out of an idea is a myth and even in one out of million chances that could be true you should be in the correct environment in the correct time. ( That doesn't mean that I will not pursue my dreams and give my projects a fair chance , it just underlines that I will not undermine everything that I have build in my career and of course my self). Don't become victim of the “startups” bubble

[Reverend Jim]

The problems (google) with Daniweb are not due to Dazah or to neglect on Dani's part. They are (google) due to outside forces (google) that have conspired (google) to push daniweb far down the list of google search results. What these outside forces (google) are I have no idea.

[AssertNull]

I know you guys aren't really seeing the full benefits of Dazah quite yet

I'm trying to remember what you said Dazah was a while back. If I recall correctly your basic theme was "I'm not done yet, it's really hard to explain, it'll make much more sense when you actually see it". Makes sense. Been there many times trying to explain a project before it was done. Difficult to do. I believe it had something to do with an algorithm to match people up? Dazah/Daniweb has the "Elevator Pitch" concept, ie the seven or so seconds to explain who you are before the other people lose interest. Do you have an updated elevator pitch for Dazah?

I try not to judge things too much before seeing things, but aren't there quite a few matching algorithms out there already (Facebook, LinkedIn, any number of dating sites)? From my experiences, the suggestions they come up with are pretty obvious, as is the "algorithm". There is a database and a whole bunch of stuff is data-mined and you get suggestions to link with people linked with people you are linked with already, people of the same age, gender, geographical area, career type, college, etc., etc. Most of it seems not particularly "intelligent", but rather checking the database and seeing a few overlapping Venn Diagrams, one of which being the antithesis of artificial "intelligence". True story. It was suggested that I link up with the former boyfriend of my current girlfriend. As far as I could tell, that was all we had in common. No thank you. I don't care how smart computers get. Only flesh and blood humans will understand that one. Generally there are more misses than hits in these algorithms.

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah. To make Dazah work, there has to be something there that matches me up with people I wouldn't ordinarily find. If all it is is some very obvious database queries, there's no real intelligence algorithm going on that I can't do better myself by simply deciding "Diafol seems cool" and PMing him and saying "I'm in Wales next week. Wanna get drunk?" or whatever.

Anyway, like I said, I have an open mind, but that's what I'd want answered in the Dazah elevator pitch. Right now it's a bit too vague.

[Dani]

I try not to judge things too much before seeing things, but aren't there quite a few matching algorithms out there already (Facebook, LinkedIn, any number of dating sites)?

Dazah is a user recommendation engine and chat API that puts functionality akin to a dating app into the hands of niche communities, online forums, meetup groups, etc.

Meetup.com currently offers no functionality for users of meetup groups to find each other. Facebook and LinkedIn currently offer rudimentary search, but as you said, it's based off of simple filters.

Our patent-pending algorithm uses behavioral data to calculate the likelihood that two people, upon being introduced to each other, will actually engage in a productive discussion that satisfies the goals of both sides. As far as I know, the only other technology that aims to do something similar is Match.com's proprietary algorithm, and they certainly aren't releasing an API or SDK anytime soon.

In DaniWeb's case, the algorithm is used to determine the likelihood that people are both capable and willing to respond to specific questions, based on the questions they've answered previously, their average response time, the level of "helpfulness" the algorithm determines them to be, and so many more things.

DaniWeb members can donate to have message alerts about their questions sent over the Dazah platform to reach out to the top 5 of these potential answerers. Other Q&A forums across other niches can use the Dazah API to offer the same thing.

Each app that uses Dazah can train the algorithm based on the unique goals of its userbase. Use cases include chambers of commerce, alumni organizations, meetup groups, discussion communities ... essentially anytime you have a large collection of people who have a need, want or interest in meeting each other based on specific goals.

[AssertNull]

In DaniWeb's case, the algorithm is used to determine the likelihood that people are both capable and willing to respond to specific questions, based on the questions they've answered previously, their average response time, the level of "helpfulness" the algorithm determines them to be, and so many more things.

DaniWeb members can donate to have message alerts about their questions sent over the Dazah platform to reach out to the top 5 of these potential answerers.

It's an interesting concept and I hope it is successful. For Daniweb itself, it seems potentially problematic (key word potentially) in that you have, not to overgeneralize but I imagine you would not disagee, an unfortunately high newbie/question asker to question answerer ratio and among the question askers, the percentage of no effort/don't stick around types is high.

I can see the no effort/don't stick around types wanting to get paired with me in the hope that I'll do their homework for free, but there's not much incentive for anyone to be paired with THEM. Less so, but similar, with the newbie/college freshman Programming 101 user. I have no problem with them, we were all there once, but they don't have a whole lot to offer a midcareer professional. I'm not going to hire them, they certainly aren't going to hire me, and in general they are useless to me in regards to "networking". Not their fault. They simply aren't in a position in life yet probably to introduce me to anyone with the potential to actually cut me a check or do research with or whatever. All that will happen is they'll make me feel really old when they ask "What's a check?"

The real folks I might potentially meet up with/network with are the question answerers, who rarely ask any questions and particularly not newbie questions. This isn't LinkedIn. The pool of active people to potentially chat with here is rather small. Easy enough to just PM them.

Anyway, not to be a big downer and again I genuinely wish you success, just food for thought. I'm going to be scarce for a while, but I just hope Dazah doesn't just end up with my Inbox overflowing with "Give me teh codz plz" PM's.

[tinstaafl]

I created a new discussion for my problem. Here

[Dani]

For Daniweb itself, it seems potentially problematic

I've been doing it here on DaniWeb for the past few years with great success. The amount of members who pay to be mached contributes a noticeable amount to our overall revenue. If you haven't felt overwhelmed or bombarded yet, don't expect for anything to change.

One of the reasons for extracting the technology from core DaniWeb and packaging it up into Dazah is that we are now able to offer it to other Q&A sites in exchange for a cut of the revenue they generate. It's my way of franchising :)

[AssertNull]

If you haven't felt overwhelmed or bombarded yet, don't expect for anything to change.

I haven't been bombarded in the slightest. In fact, as far as I can tell, I have not been contacted even once directly by a member or by anything automated as a result of this. Does that mean I've never been delected as a match for a single thread or for a single user? Would there have been an automated PM if I had?

[Dani]

Does that mean I've never been delected as a match for a single thread or for a single user?

Yes.

Would there have been an automated PM if I had?

Yes.

Well good luck with it. Still not sure how Dazah is going to improve my experience of using DW.

[AssertNull]

In DaniWeb's case, the algorithm is used to determine the likelihood that people are both capable and willing to respond to specific questions, based on the questions they've answered previously, their average response time, the level of "helpfulness" the algorithm determines them to be, and so many more things.

Given that I haven't been chosen even once, either my C++ help is worse than I thought or the algorithm has a bug in it. I don't have the hubris to put myself in the top 5 in C++ skill level around here, but for most of these questions, it's like teaching pre-Algebra. Pretty much anyone in the field knows enough of the subject matter to handle the questions, with some exceptions, so it comes down to being able to explain it well, so I figured my name would come up at least occasionally if for nothing else than to give the top ten or twenty an occasional break. Or are the same 5 picked over and over again in each discipline?

Frankly the whole thing leaves me quite intrigued about this formula. Is this a secret sauce kind of thing or are you at some point going to publish the formula? And how expandable is this formula? Is this something you can tailor to just about everything (dating, hiring, firing, selecting babysitters, selecting carpoolers, predicting who's going to join a gang or a cult or a terrorist organization, etc.)? If I was running a forum concentrating on, I don't know, ice hockey, and you knew nothing about ice hockey and I knew nothing about computer algorithms, could I use this system? That's the goal, right? People of all walks of life running all sorts of forums can use this, including non-techies?

You don't have to answer these questions now. Just curious about how this all works and waiting for the rollout.