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Is cross-posting against the rules? I believe it is not. I also believe that everyone here agrees with me that it's rude behavior. This thread, among others, causes me to believe this.

https://www.daniweb.com/community-center/threads/510095/need-help

Is anyone who answers questions NOT annoyed to answer a question, then find out that the verbatim question by the same poster has been asked and answered before on another forum without your knowledge, and THEN the question is posted on Daniweb?

Can anyone think of a legitimate reason for a poster to do this? If not, it seems to me that the rules should be ammended to make that a rule. We just went through this with a problem poster who shall remain unnamed. The mods were powerless to stop this troll behavior precisely because there was no rule against it, a situation this poster exploited over and over again with glee. A newbie poster should have no problem with this as a rule. It's easy enough to write something up explaining WHY it is a problem and it would give the mods more power to infract or warn someone who needs it (how, after all, can you warn or infract someone for violating a norm that ISN'T a rule). If I was a newbie not realizing this was a breach of ettiquette, I would WANT it to be a rule with a writeup of why it is a problem so I would be aware of it and correct my behavior. But then again I try to be considerate of peoples' time who are helping me for free.

I'd be genuinely interested in any arguments in favor of not making this a rule. I can't think of any, which doesn't mean there isn't one. Clearly the mods feel it necessary to google the questions and warn other question answerers when folks are doing this. I appreciate that effort, but I have to believe the mods have better things to do with their time.

Thoughts?

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  • > highly suggested that people link to their question Why not just go one more step from "highly suggested" to "mandatory" and let the mods use their discretion as far as who actually needs to be infracted? The mods you've chosen aren't going to go hog wild infracting people who … Read More

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    I think where cross posting becomes problematical is where there have been correct answers to the question in another place but the OP continues to ask the same question again elsewhere **after** the fact anyway. That is a waste of everyone's time, on this forum **and** the other. Read More

  • > Anyway where are the rules? Yes indeed. I think it's poor practice for us to penalise people for breaking rules they don't know about. A link buried in the TOS ("Yes I have read and approved the TOS, all 18 pages of legalese") doesn't count. There was a time … Read More

  • >I think we should have a highly visible link to the rules on the page where people create a new topic I believe I've mentioned this one or twice (or a dozen) times. Read More

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    pty 448   4 Weeks Ago

    > Unfortunately I am as much in the dark as everyone else here as to how to adapt. Have a quick look at what's replaced forums in this area. Take [r/learnprogramming](https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/) for example. There aren't any "NEED HOTEL BOOKING APP HALP PLS" posts (they do appear but are *swiftly* dealt … Read More

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Under Keep it Organized you will find

  • Do not post the same question multiple times

I believe cross posting is covered by that rule. Even though is might be implied that this refers only to posting the same question on Daniweb, it isn't expressly stated.

Edited by Reverend Jim

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Yes, it only refers to posting the same question on DaniWeb.

Posting the same question on different forums is not against the rules, but it is considered a bit rude. I mentioned this a little bit ago, but it's akin to having a question in real life and posing it to a couple different groups of friends to get different takes. However, it's highly suggested that people link to their question in the other forums so that potential answerers are aware of the full breadth of the discussion.

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highly suggested that people link to their question

Why not just go one more step from "highly suggested" to "mandatory" and let the mods use their discretion as far as who actually needs to be infracted? The mods you've chosen aren't going to go hog wild infracting people who don't deserve it. Most people who AREN'T time wasters won't need to be infracted. A simple "Please link your other questions" followed by "Sure. No problem" will solve the problem for people who AREN'T there to waste peoples' time, leaving the ability to hammer folks who actually need to be hammered as opposed to the current situation where trolls taunt mods at their inability to do anything.

Edited by AssertNull

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Maybe go deja vu on them with the same answer as before?
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I think where cross posting becomes problematical is where there have been correct answers to the question in another place but the OP continues to ask the same question again elsewhere after the fact anyway. That is a waste of everyone's time, on this forum and the other.

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I think where cross posting becomes problematical is where there have been correct answers to the question in another place but the OP continues to ask the same question again elsewhere after the fact anyway. That is a waste of everyone's time, on this forum and the other.

Indeed, but who's going to know? Unless you start doing some investigative work on each and every question thrown? Dani doesn't seem to be bothered about it, unless it's cross-posting on Daniweb (correct me if I'm wrong). So I won't hold my breath for this becoming a rule anytime soon. I find the practice extremely inconsiderate.

I thought there was something in the rules about only posting original content? Anyway where are the rules?? I can't seem to find any links at the top or bottom of the pages - only Terms of Service?

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Anyway where are the rules?

Yes indeed. I think it's poor practice for us to penalise people for breaking rules they don't know about. A link buried in the TOS ("Yes I have read and approved the TOS, all 18 pages of legalese") doesn't count. There was a time when there was a direct link at the bottom of each page. Much better IMHO.

I think we should have a highly visible link to the rules on the page where people create a new topic - maybe even require a tick against them.

Mr Prosser: you found the notice, didn’t you?

Arthur: Yes yes I did. It was on display at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying beware of the leopard.

Edited by JamesCherrill

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I think we should have a highly visible link to the rules on the page where people create a new topic

I believe I've mentioned this one or twice (or a dozen) times.

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As for the 'original content' rule that was written up for people posting editorial (back in the day when we had news story content and tutorial regularly) rather than questions IIRC.

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Indeed, but who's going to know? Unless you start doing some investigative work on each and every question thrown? Dani doesn't seem to be bothered about it, unless it's cross-posting on Daniweb (correct me if I'm wrong). So I won't hold my breath for this becoming a rule anytime soon. I find the practice extremely inconsiderate.

This, alone, is a reason why it's not practical to make it a rule. Rules are designed to be completely objective, where infractions are only handed out when it can be clearly seen that an infraction should be handed out. I'm not really excited about the requirement for it to take investigative work to determine if a post violates a rule.

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I believe I've mentioned this one or twice (or a dozen) times.

It is, for all members with fewer than 20 or so posts. To see what they see, try asking a question while being logged out.

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Hmm. I've been reading this thread and I can't tell who agrees and disagrees with me and with what. It feels like everyone agrees with me that it's rude behavior, though Dani appears to think it's rude, but less rude than everyone else.

I appear to be alone in thinking this should be a rule? Can't tell.

If so, the main objection is that it is an unenforceable rule or one that takes more effort to enforce than the effort lost helping cross-posters?

I'd like to see the rules more prominently displayed.

I imagine this one is uncontroversial. I think we're all for this.

Rules are designed to be completely objective

Hmm. "Keep it pleasant"? "Keep it organized"? "Keep it clear"? These all require judgment calls. Specifically compared to "Don't post verbatim posts across multiple forums without telling people", which seems quite cut and dry. You're either guilty of that or you're not. Judgment calls would be required if you posted ALMOST identical questions with a slight wording change. I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

Indeed, but who's going to know? Unless you start doing some investigative work on each and every question thrown?

Not "each and every question thrown" by a long shot. But you yourself did the investigative work in the thread I linked. Why? As you stated, you've developed a "nose for time wasters". We all have. Your nose tingled, you did the investigative work, found the cross posts, and posted them to warn others. Happens all the time here. No EXTRA investigative work is required to make it a rule. If someone gets caught, they get caught. If not, they got away with it. The rule allows for consequences WHEN they get caught.

I'm not really excited about the requirement for it to take investigative work to determine if a post violates a rule.

See above.

OK, I've weighed in. I only weighed in THIS time to figure out if we're actually disagreeing about whether this is rude behavior, if it's rude enough and a big enough problem to be worth a new rule, and whether a new rule could be implemented successfully without much effort from the mods. I think yes, yes, yes, and yes.

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There's rules and then there is etiquette. Etiquette says don't crosspost. But to make it a rule is rough as noted above.

If you do find them crossposting, you can simply point to the crosspost link and write if you agree with the answers so far. Usually the crossposter figures out they will be found out if they crosspost.

PS. Adding with edit:
There's another point of etiguette which is don't beat up the newbies. I find newbies cross post the most after that the ones that never learn. That could be UI (the one who has the ideas that will rival Google)?

Edited by rproffitt: Added PS.

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"Keep it pleasant"? "Keep it organized"? "Keep it clear"? These all require judgment calls.

Those are infractions, not rules. The rules that determine those infractions are quite clearly explained and not subjective.

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Not sure any of this is helping. Most agree it's rude. No changes to rules. Take it easy on noobs, whoever they are - noobs to DW or noobs to forums? Anyhow, this is behaviour I'm seeing more and more of lately. But as Dani once told me in no uncertain terms, there is no compunction on members to respond. Leave it to the mods :)

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Re noobs... I have been worried about the aggressive responses to some recent cross posts. Nowhere in advance do we tell them not to do it. Maybe the majority of those were not aware of our views on that. I certainly think we should respond politely, at least the first time.

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I think this behaviour is becoming de rigeur. TBH, we only get posts from noobs, fly-byers and shit-tippers. Maybe the odd forum-savvy OP. Why expect anything more? Not sure if aggression was the right word James, but rudeness is certainly a fair description.

Had a eureka moment. This just ain't any fun anymore. This is like pulling teeth. All the poncing about pandering to trolls and softly softly with pisstakers. I'm gone. Account deleted. Good luck. 10 years is enough for me.

Edited by diafol

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I think pandering to trolls that use rules against us is a key item here. More discussion please.
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Dani please let me go. 7 days inactivity before allowed to delete is stupid.

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:-( Id, be really, really sorry to lose you Alan. Hopefully you will reply to this and that will add a few more hours before you can nuke yourself :-)

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diafol! Why delete? Keep the account and allow us to keep a contact with you, I cannot imagine this forum without your posts :(

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Yes! Don’t do it! You never how how things may improve in future
What he said!
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I think pandering to trolls that use rules against us is a key item here. More discussion please.

The Bible...

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Excerpt (see bold):

Odds are you'll screw up a few times on hacker community forums — in ways detailed in this article, or similar. And you'll be told exactly how you screwed up, possibly with colourful asides. In public.

When this happens, the worst thing you can do is whine about the experience, claim to have been verbally assaulted, demand apologies, scream, hold your breath, threaten lawsuits, complain to people's employers, leave the toilet seat up, etc. Instead, here's what you do:

Get over it. It's normal. In fact, it's healthy and appropriate.

Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public. Don't whine that all criticism should have been conveyed via private e-mail: That's not how it works. Nor is it useful to insist you've been personally insulted when someone comments that one of your claims was wrong, or that his views differ. Those are loser attitudes.

There have been hacker forums where, out of some misguided sense of hyper-courtesy, participants are banned from posting any fault-finding with another's posts, and told “Don't say anything if you're unwilling to help the user.” The resulting departure of clueful participants to elsewhere causes them to descend into meaningless babble and become useless as technical forums.

Exaggeratedly “friendly” (in that fashion) or useful: Pick one.

Remember: When that hacker tells you that you've screwed up, and (no matter how gruffly) tells you not to do it again, he's acting out of concern for (1) you and (2) his community. It would be much easier for him to ignore you and filter you out of his life. If you can't manage to be grateful, at least have a little dignity, don't whine, and don't expect to be treated like a fragile doll just because you're a newcomer with a theatrically hypersensitive soul and delusions of entitlement.

No pandering.

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Here's the dictionary for Pander (noun). "Gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire, need, or habit or a person with such a desire, etc."

There has been a slew of low quality questions from a few members that were done for nothing more than to expose their spam links in the tagline or a shill operation.

We pandered to them by allowing dozens of such low quality questions to stay. They were disingenuous (insincere) members and deserved, in my opinion nothing but a slap of the eject buttons. Did they break the rules? Not directly but did use the rules to stay.

In their case, it became clear over time what the game was and I'm unsure if they were left alone or ejected. This behavior if left unchecked signals "this is OK." This is not OK to me but I understand the desire to let them be as well as why I want them gone.

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The "will they ever add anything of value to any conversation" test sorts them out quick enough.
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It feels like everyone agrees with me that it's rude behavior, though Dani appears to think it's rude, but less rude than everyone else.
If so, the main objection is that it is an unenforceable rule or one that takes more effort to enforce than the effort lost helping cross-posters?

I feel as if I find it less rude than everyone else, as I tend from time to time to do it myself as a question asker. Additionally, I think it's rather unenforceable, or, at the very least, not realistically consistently enforceable.

My main reason for not wanting to change the rules is because they've worked great for us for 15 years. They only stopped working when the site stopped being activate and we stopped getting quality content entirely. So I don't really want to adjust the rules to cater to the current state of affairs.

Had a eureka moment. This just ain't any fun anymore. This is like pulling teeth. All the poncing about pandering to trolls and softly softly with pisstakers. I'm gone. Account deleted. Good luck. 10 years is enough for me.

Would be super, duper, duper sad for you to leave, no doubt about that. However, on the flip side, I've been trying every which way I know to try to "fix" DaniWeb, and I'm probably more burned out than everyone else here combined. DaniWeb is still, and always will (for better or for worse) be my baby, but I'm as frustrated and burned out as everyone else. The problem is I don't know what to do to fix it. The platform is the problem. Old school tech support forums are passe. There's Quora, Reddit, Stack Overflow, Gitter, ... what do we offer that those don't?

Dani please let me go. 7 days inactivity before allowed to delete is stupid.

It's like that to make sure people don't make rash decisions. ;) Just stay away for a week. This way you can always come back in the future if things get better. What's the advantage to deleting?

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So I don't really want to adjust the rules to cater to the current state of affairs.

Darwin pointed out that it's not survival of the fittest but survival of those best able to adapt to change. Unfortunately I am as much in the dark as everyone else here as to how to adapt.

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Unfortunately I am as much in the dark as everyone else here as to how to adapt.

Have a quick look at what's replaced forums in this area.

Take r/learnprogramming for example.

There aren't any "NEED HOTEL BOOKING APP HALP PLS" posts (they do appear but are swiftly dealt with), there's no spam, there's no drama, there are plenty of people offering advice and pointing people in the right direction.

Importantly, there is a set of rules that is rigid and anything that doesn't comply is dealt with so quick most people are unaware that it happens.

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Well, here you are, weary traveler, one steaming hot cup of justice. No need to thank me, (The Tick)
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Darwin pointed out that it's not survival of the fittest but survival of those best able to adapt to change.

That's true.

There aren't any "NEED HOTEL BOOKING APP HALP PLS" posts (they do appear but are swiftly dealt with), there's no spam, there's no drama, there are plenty of people offering advice and pointing people in the right direction.

And if you looked at DaniWeb 5+ years ago, you would have made much the same observations. The fact that there exists a very long single page of rules, resources, and best practices on one of them is not the reason why one site thrives and the other doesn't.

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