Decline in morals? - Page 5

[Lardmeister]

That stay in prison should be short, violent, and terminal.

Does that mean you have to be a quick learner?

[neocoder]

That stay in prison should be short, violent, and terminal.

Something tells me that you've been a victim of crime, jwenting..?

[jbennet]

i think morals are ust different niot necessarilly bad or better

[jwenting]

Something tells me that you've been a victim of crime, jwenting..?

yup, though not by a youngster. The owner of a company I used to work for ran off with all the company funds, leaving us bankrupt and costing me a lot of money (5 years later and my salary is finally back where it was before the bankruptcy, not counting for inflation, and that's just missed income, I also lost most of my savings).

[EnderX]

Their emphasis has turned away from rehabilitation towards profit.

Please explain to me why the emphasis was ever on rehabilitation in the first place. I was always under the impression that the purpose of prisons wasn't to rehabilitate criminals, but to keep them away from potential future victims, at least for a time.

[neocoder]

Please explain to me why the emphasis was ever on rehabilitation in the first place. I was always under the impression that the purpose of prisons wasn't to rehabilitate criminals, but to keep them away from potential future victims, at least for a time.

How did you get the impression that they are not (theoretically) for rehabilitation?

Since a sentence tends to have a release date, often after a few years, that would imply that the system hopes that the inmate has in some way changed by the time they are released.

As a deterrent, they are not working so well because, after all, in the States and NZ there are so many incarcerated. Many offended while irrational (angry, wasted, desperate), while not considering deterrents.

Over here, we the "Corrections Department", implying that offenders are in some way corrected. Not all respond, but many do. We have a prison that has a 5% rate of recidivism, not bad eh? Mind you, the population had applied to be transferred there, and were selected by psychologists.

I have no answers, just pointing out that its not as simple as just taking them out of the loop. You'd be building cities of inmates. Its got to be a bit more than that somehow.

[jwenting]

prisons have always been for punishment. The fundamentally flawed idea that they're for "rehabillitation" was a direct spinoff of the flowerpower movement of the 1960s and early 1970s when it was thought everyone was basically nice and if only shown a lot of love and understanding would steer clear of crime.

As a result prisons were ever more changed from institutions where people are locked up to protect society into 5 star hotels where they're supposed to be "reeducated" and shown that they are really nice people at heart who made a bad mistake that really was not their fault at all.

This has of course failed utterly, as people are generally NOT nice, and the percentage of criminals who pick up their criminal enterprises after being released has gone up instead of down as the deterrence value of prison sentences has been reduced to almost nothing.

[atish00]

no prison is not gud for us,....... they make you break stones there.... :( ..... they give you veg. food there and only 1 to go outside. And teen don't go to jail anyways they go for relabilitation.

[neocoder]

prisons have always been for punishment. The fundamentally flawed idea that they're for "rehabillitation" was a direct spinoff of the flowerpower movement of the 1960s and early 1970s when it was thought everyone was basically nice and if only shown a lot of love and understanding would steer clear of crime.

As a result prisons were ever more changed from institutions where people are locked up to protect society into 5 star hotels where they're supposed to be "reeducated" and shown that they are really nice people at heart who made a bad mistake that really was not their fault at all.

This has of course failed utterly, as people are generally NOT nice, and the percentage of criminals who pick up their criminal enterprises after being released has gone up instead of down as the deterrence value of prison sentences has been reduced to almost nothing.

Well, sometimes rehabilitation works, you just have to careful not to waste it on the ones that play games. The prison I mentioned earlier has a tough program and transfers anybody not cooperating. It totally rubs their noses in their offending and sometimes that flips them out. At this point I want to point out that I was not an inmate, merely a volunteer. If it works on a few, its worth providing it to that few I think.

I think you're thinking purely about the really nasty offenders. I have in mind those who had addictions, drunk driving, domestic violence, not the players, the gang bangers and psychopaths. Despite their crimes, their families (and many of the maori have large extended family) are glad to see them back. I've known many, and they are a mix, some are reptiles, sure, but many are pretty normal otherwise.

As for being 5 start hotels, that really depends on the prison. The max security ones are anything but. Its the right place for some of them, sure. In the States they have these new SHU (secure housing units driven by computers) some time in a little yard alone, the rest of the time in a box. In others, its dog eat dog. Not the Hilton.

[neocoder]

no prison is not gud for us,....... they make you break stones there.... :( ..... they give you veg. food there and only 1 to go outside. And teen don't go to jail anyways they go for relabilitation.

Yeah...I think it's good to catch the teens early, before they get into the adult system and learn the game. We have the "diversion program" for that. Short sharp shock nice and early, get them to meet their victims and hear all about the damage they caused, in an uncomfortable meeting over a cup of tea in some old lady's lounge ;)

[bumsfeld]

It's not-in-jail older folks with bad morals that teach younger folks bad habits.

[Twinkles]

That is funny, it reminded me of some obscene phone calls I started getting about 20 years ago when I lived in California -- they were all from the same young lady (girl). Finally I got tired of them so I kept her on the line, the longer I talked the more vaulger I became. After talking about all the dead women I had in my back yard she hang up :) I never heard from her again (whew!)

looooooooooooooooooooooooool that is great loooooooooool

[jbennet]

please dont do "loooooooooooooooooooool" or you will get a warning

[Nick Evan]

please dont do "loooooooooooooooooooool" or you will get a warning

"Respect my authoritah!"

;)

[jbennet]

;)