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    [QUOTE=Ancient Dragon;516661][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariots_of_the_Gods"]Chariots of the Gods[/URL] is a very interesting book that tries to explain many things on Earth were actually created by spacement who visited here. It was the inspiration for several popular sci-fi tv series and movies.[/QUOTE] There is actually nothing very interesting in CotG; every significant factoid mentioned … Read More

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    [QUOTE=Lardmeister;541726]After one look at this planet, any visitor from outer space would say "I WANT TO SEE THE MANAGER!"[/QUOTE] Take me to your lizzard! Read More

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    Yay are you back? havent seen you in ages Christina Read More

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It is entirely possible that a lack of UFOs (being defined as alien spacecraft, not just something in our atmosphere that cannot be identified) does not necessarily mean that there is no other life outside of our planet. They may be on the same time line as us and haven't been able to explore outside of their own solar system yet.

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If you talk about visitors from outer space, I would say 'no', since distances are simply too far. It would take thousands of years of travel in even the best case.

If you talk about loonies, dopers and drunkards seeing something strange, then I would say 'of course!'

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there are things in the sky that are at some stage unidentified, these are UFOs.
Once they are identified (as they invariably are) they're UFOs no longer.
So yes, there are UFOs but no, they're not extraterrestrial spaceships.
And yes, there's likely life on other planets but no, they're not going to come here to snoop around.

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Chariots of the Gods is a very interesting book that tries to explain many things on Earth were actually created by spacement who visited here. It was the inspiration for several popular sci-fi tv series and movies.

There is actually nothing very interesting in CotG; every significant factoid mentioned in the book that was not an outright lie has been debunked - thanks for pointing to the wiki, rather than, say - pointing to one of these sites.

(digression) Here in Seattle there was an ice cream parlor in the 'U District' called DanKens - we used to call it Van DanKens - Ice Cream of the Gods. It was really, really good ice cream(/digression).

I used to visit some of these crackpot sites but they eventually began to run together - way too many bangs (!), weird underlining, and random capitalizations. I say "if any paragraph has more than one bang, they're a crank!!!"

(new digression) the British call bangs 'shrieks' - which I kind of like ie MATLAB GEEK: look right here you want a shriek so you 'shell escape' "(/new digression).

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Thanks for the great link, I have to bookmark that.
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Coincidentally, there was a recent "UFO sighting" in Texas. Stevensville, I believe is the city name. It has recently received national attention.. apparently many people saw some 'unidentified' object.. The initial two responses from the government were that they had no idea what the object could have been. However, the government recently made a new statement saying that there were actually F-16s in the area. This, of course, has created no government conspiracy theories..

As to the idea of other life out in the universe.. I think the obvious answer is: Yes. Seriously, now.. the universe is infinitely expanding.. The probability that there is other life somewhere out there is approaching one indefinitely. The real question is whether we will ever make contact with other civilizations. Unfortunately, the universe is huge.. and most likely not navigable over great distances.

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Obviously not comprehensive (cause of unheard-coverups), but here's a longish list (I like lists):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_sightings

You're one's mentioned at the end, Josh:

Dozens of residents of Stephenville claim to have seen a "large silent object with bright lights flying low and fast." Several also reported having observed fighter jets chasing it.

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There is actually nothing very interesting in CotG; every significant factoid mentioned in the book that was not an outright lie has been debunked - thanks for pointing to the wiki, rather than, say - pointing to one of these sites.

Yes, I know, but its interesting reading anyway. I don't really believe what I seen in Start Trek either, but I like to watch it.

I visited that link you posted -- wow what a bunch of nasty stuff.

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If you talk about visitors from outer space, I would say 'no', since distances are simply too far. It would take thousands of years of travel in even the best case.

If you talk about loonies, dopers and drunkards seeing something strange, then I would say 'of course!'

The distances are too far for who?

That is true for us certainly, at this point in our developement. But it is not beyond the realm of possiblility that some other civilization could have developed methods that bypass our limited technological means.

It is also conceivable that individuals within some race could live millions or billions of years, so that travel from there to here would be no more impressive than, say, walking around the world would be for one of us.

Finally, we could appear to be so insignificant to them that they simply take a look and move on. We might be no more to them than, say, a bit of mold on an orange peel generally is to us.

Anyone who disbelieves in the possibility of life elsewhere either wants it to be that way or has never thought of the possibilities at length.

In an infinite universe, there is infinite possibility. It seems rediculous to judge what might be happening "out there" simply in terms of our personal limitations.

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The distances are too far for who?

That is true for us certainly, at this point in our developement. But it is not beyond the realm of possiblility that some other civilization could have developed methods that bypass our limited technological means.

Light limit. While it doesn't completely preclude the possibility of making the journey, the fact that a ship of any kind cannot travel faster than the vacuum speed of light (due to the laws of physics if I recall correctly) means that a trip would take a vast length of time. The nearest extrasolar star, after all (technically that should be stars, as there are three of them) sit somewhat over four light-years away, meaning a journey from them would take at least that long. And I'm fairly sure they don't have planets; the trip from a planetary system would be, by definition, longer.

It is also conceivable that individuals within some race could live millions or billions of years, so that travel from there to here would be no more impressive than, say, walking around the world would be for one of us.

I'd think someone actually walking around the world would be pretty impressive, actually...or did you simply mean 'travelling' around it?

Finally, we could appear to be so insignificant to them that they simply take a look and move on. We might be no more to them than, say, a bit of mold on an orange peel generally is to us.

They've taken years to get here, and they'll just take one look and say 'skip it'? Not even take the time to stretch whatever leg-equivalents they have out?

Anyone who disbelieves in the possibility of life elsewhere either wants it to be that way or has never thought of the possibilities at length.

I believe it could exist, I simply find it unlikely that the human race will ever find out. Which side of the options you just gave does that fall on?

In an infinite universe, there is infinite possibility. It seems rediculous to judge what might be happening "out there" simply in terms of our personal limitations.

Are you presuming a steady-state universe? If we go with the big bang theory, then by definition it can't be infinite because it's been spreading for a finite amount of time since it began, and it is presumed to have begun at a single point, which would give spatial limitations to the area within.

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Light limit. While it doesn't completely preclude the possibility of making the journey, the fact that a ship of any kind cannot travel faster than the vacuum speed of light (due to the laws of physics if I recall correctly) means that a trip would take a vast length of time. The nearest extrasolar star, after all (technically that should be stars, as there are three of them) sit somewhat over four light-years away, meaning a journey from them would take at least that long. And I'm fairly sure they don't have planets; the trip from a planetary system would be, by definition, longer.

I'd think someone actually walking around the world would be pretty impressive, actually...or did you simply mean 'travelling' around it?

They've taken years to get here, and they'll just take one look and say 'skip it'? Not even take the time to stretch whatever leg-equivalents they have out?

I believe it could exist, I simply find it unlikely that the human race will ever find out. Which side of the options you just gave does that fall on?

Are you presuming a steady-state universe? If we go with the big bang theory, then by definition it can't be infinite because it's been spreading for a finite amount of time since it began, and it is presumed to have begun at a single point, which would give spatial limitations to the area within.

I'm aware of the limitations of our notion of the universe. I happen to not believe that "what we see (and know how to do) is all there is."

But even assuming that light speed is an ultimate limit, so what? Time is meaningful only in terms of how much or how little we have.

Using the Big Bang theory to dismiss the infinite is a stretch. However you wish to view the universe, the notion of infinite is close enough to what is there for purposes of this discussion.

Yes, I meant walking around the world. Walking around the world is not much of a stretch at all. Granted, one cannot walk on water, but 20,000 miles is not much. Given a path upon which to do so, a healthy person could do it in a year and a half, walking 10 hours a day (assuming they had support along the way).

They could skip over us for any number of reasons. I won't try to guess at that. This might be their equivalent of a desert. We might be deemed too nasty to thier lives, like a virus. Their existance and ours might be so far apart that they'd be at a loss as to how to communicate. Perhaps they are only partially "in" our dimensions and could not interact with us if they wanted to. Use your imagination.

Where do I stand? Only in the realm of possibility, not in expectation. That said, I do not expect we will or will not find out.

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>>the fact that a ship of any kind cannot travel faster than the vacuum speed of light (due to the laws of physics

We don't know if that hold true throughout the universe. Who says we can not travel at worp speed like they do in Star Trek?

>>Yes, I meant walking around the world. Walking around the world is not much of a stretch at all
Dave Kunst has already done that; riding on ships/boats only to cross large bodies of water.

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>>the fact that a ship of any kind cannot travel faster than the vacuum speed of light (due to the laws of physics

We don't know if that hold true throughout the universe. Who says we can not travel at worp speed like they do in Star Trek?

I love that documentary. It never ceases to amaze me though how little deviation there isis in the size of the aliens they encounter, and that they mostly speak english.

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>>the fact that a ship of any kind cannot travel faster than the vacuum speed of light (due to the laws of physics

We don't know if that hold true throughout the universe. Who says we can not travel at worp speed like they do in Star Trek?
...

Well, warp speed is simply an imagination of Hollywood to make the whole Star Trek series possible. Imagine you would even hit a speck of stellar dust at such speeds! Earlier, some imaginator invented Superman, Peter Pan and other flying objects (don't try it yourself). You are right AD, all very entertaining and good for your own imagination!

@BS:
If other life forms could live extreme long lifes and travel at any speed, we would have had visitors already. Look out the window, are you seeing any?

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Well, warp speed is simply an imagination of Hollywood to make the whole Star Trek series possible. Imagine you would even hit a speck of stellar dust at such speeds! Earlier, some imaginator invented Superman, Peter Pan and other flying objects (don't try it yourself). You are right AD, all very entertaining and good for your own imagination!

@BS:
If other life forms could live extreme long lifes and travel at any speed, we would have had visitors already. Look out the window, are you seeing any?

And I though Star Trek was a documentary. I'm crushed.

Am I seeing any visitors? Maybe so, maybe not. Do you know that I am not seeing them? I'll answer for you, no, you do not.

[Did you see that "comedy" (heh heh, that's what they called it, but it was a documentary, actually), Men In Black?] The point would be that you wouldn't necessarily know if you were seeing them.]

I have no problem with anyone only believing what they see, what I don't understand is that so many people choose not to look for possibilities beyond what they see.

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Nothing wrong with a healthy imagination! You need it to be creative. Men in Black is a very funny movie.

However, when you imagine to see living/moving things others can't see, and you are sober and call them real, then you are a troubled mind at best.

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Nothing wrong with a healthy imagination! You need it to be creative. Men in Black is a very funny movie.

However, when you imagine to see living/moving things others can't see, and you are sober and call them real, then you are a troubled mind at best.

That brings to mind a song ...

A worried man with a worried mind
No one in front of me and nothing behind
There's a woman on my lap and she's ..
Drinking champagne ...

Ah but I digress. I could not agree with you more. Or less. Whichever. Anyway, well said.

I don't assume there is no such thing just because it has not yet been seen by me. I have no expectations, just observations and thought.

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However, when you imagine to see living/moving things others can't see, and you are sober and call them real, then you are a troubled mind at best.

Who ya gona call ?

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Actually, there's nothing in Newtonian or Einsteinian physics that prevents one from travelling faster than light.
The only thing that's prohibited is travelling at exactly the speed of light itself.
So if one were to find a way to accellerate from subluminal velocities to superluminal velocities (and of course decellerate again to subluminal velocities) without ever travelling at the speed of light itself one would be able to reach just about any speed one wants to.
In fact, accelleration at superluminal speeds may well cost no energy at all, while decelleration gets more expensive the nearer to the speed of light one comes while slowing down.

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Actually, there's nothing in Newtonian or Einsteinian physics that prevents one from travelling faster than light.
The only thing that's prohibited is travelling at exactly the speed of light itself.
So if one were to find a way to accellerate from subluminal velocities to superluminal velocities (and of course decellerate again to subluminal velocities) without ever travelling at the speed of light itself one would be able to reach just about any speed one wants to.
In fact, accelleration at superluminal speeds may well cost no energy at all, while decelleration gets more expensive the nearer to the speed of light one comes while slowing down.

How would you manage to skip that particular speed while undergoing accel/decel? If you can't move past it without hitting it, then there's no way for an object to undergo the shift between sub- and superluminal speeds. I fail to see how anything on one side would even be able to interact with something on the other.

Perhaps that's where the supposed missing 90% of the universe is hiding...beyond the light limit.

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Coincidentally, there was a recent "UFO sighting" in Texas. Stevensville, I believe is the city name. It has recently received national attention.. apparently many people saw some 'unidentified' object.. The initial two responses from the government were that they had no idea what the object could have been. However, the government recently made a new statement saying that there were actually F-16s in the area. This, of course, has created no government conspiracy theories..

Another bunch of pranksters with fire balloons.

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Actually, there's nothing in Newtonian or Einsteinian physics that prevents one from travelling faster than light.

Actually, the speed of light IS the speed limit of everything - and (through study of Einsteins and Lorentz' work), I have discovered that there is only one speed in the entire universe - the speed of light. We don't notice it, because it is the speed we move through time.

ALL motion obeys this equation exactly (Use Excel formula notation for expressions) as observed by one observer:

w = SQRT(c^2 - v^2)

Where:

c is the speed of light
v is the velocity of the observed object, relative to the observer
w is the speed through the observer's time dimension

w/c is the time dilation factor.

A v faster than c causes the square root to not exist.

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