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when it comes to hunting, the respect should not only be given to the firearm but also the animal which you plan to kill. The animal should be used to feed or shelter you family and not killed as a sport.

When guns and life are respected equally then the chances of accidental or intentional injuries are reduced.

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I have been thinking about this topic for awhile so I would not just post a left wing anti-gun rant. I grew up in Montana; I went out into the wilderness (about 2 miles out of town) with my dad at age 12 and shot rocks as my intro 101 to guns; then I took an NRA gun safety class. I do not think that every who wants to should be able to own a gun and I have no idea how to divide 'good' gun owners from 'bad'.

The first group game I remember playing was British and MauMaus - I had no clue how that was different from cowboys and indians until about 40 years later and I still don't know how kids in Livingston MT ages 8-11 in 1956 even knew that story. We did not have toy guns to play with - we used sticks, and they were at least as accurate. I don't think buying kids toy guns is a problem, I think buying kids exact replicas of real guns is a problem.

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You guys should just ban guns, works for us most of the time

American's (such as I) are to cynical of our government to let that happen.

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Latest news in Tennesee:
Another two nut cases with a car full of guns were caught planning to shoot Barack Obama.

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They did not pay attention when they caught 2 guys in Denver during the convention with the same idea - do you think they will take this one seriously?

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Man this is ridiculous, I think Barack Obama could be the next great leader of the US. But think about it, look what happened to JFK, wasn't he supposed to be the next best thing to sliced bread.

I wonder if it is a race issue thats causing these douche bags to want to kill Barack.

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JFK was unpopular

1) cuban missle crisis including crap invasion of cuba
2) escaleted nam
3) pissed off the USSR
4) let sadamm become head of iraq
5) people werent happy with the fact he liked black people and wemen and equal rights
6) spent huge sums of money on space

and yeah the guys who planned to shoot barrack obama were skinheads

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.... actually my 6 yr old has gone out hunting with his grandfather that last couple times he went. ....

Does this grandfather ever think what happens to a 6 year old child's mind when the child is forced to watch an animal being killed, blood all over, then the killed animal is cut open and gutted (field dressed)?

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And how does the fact that children have been taken hunting by their elders for untold generations fit into that equation?

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And how does the fact that children have been taken hunting by their elders for untold generations fit into that equation?

You are of course correct, my sincere apologies.

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Does this grandfather ever think what happens to a 6 year old child's mind when the child is forced to watch an animal being killed, blood all over, then the killed animal is cut open and gutted (field dressed)?

This sounded really familiar so I looked around in the local newsrag and came up with this article of a great grandfather/grandchild hunting experience. Though I doubt the hiker's family thought much of it. Oh, and the grandfather left them on the trail - a f*ing hiking trail - to hunt. I get a little hot when this kind of sh*t happens, sorry!

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Using toy guns is an excellent "teaching moment". It's far too easy to get a weapon with no training at all, and I suspect that's part of the reason for accidental shootings.
I took an NRA course before they turned into a Right-wing propaganda machine, and it was very good. It's possible the course is still good, but I haven't researched it.
I was later able to put all this training to good use in Vietnam, but I suspect, for most people, learning gun safety is just one of those learning experiences that accrue to the general, but not any specific, good.

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I took the NRA class too (well, I think I did - it was about 50 years ago and in Montana so I am sure it was taught by an NRA member); using an M14, I could put 5 rounds in the bulls-eye and 5 just below (it was a tight spread, I just somehow shot low and right - maybe my sling loosened at the end there??!!)

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I was later able to put all this training to good use in Vietnam

I've hear that most Drill Instructors, if given a choice, prefer to train someone who has no experience shooting. That way there are no bad habits to unlearn and they can train them as an adult from the ground up. Is this true? And is the training one receives from an NRA-style course or at a Police Academy helpful or hurtful to the way one trains soldiers for combat? Grim Jack pointed out in another thread that the needs of police/peacekeepers are often different and even counterproductive to those of the military in a combat zone. Or is shooting and shooting safety the same everywhere and all training helps no matter where it's from?

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I took the NRA class too (well, I think I did - it was about 50 years ago and in Montana so I am sure it was taught by an NRA member); using an M14, I could put 5 rounds in the bulls-eye and 5 just below (it was a tight spread, I just somehow shot low and right - maybe my sling loosened at the end there??!!)

I forgot to mention that this was at 1000 meters - at all the other distances, really tight groupings in the bullseye.

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I've hear that most Drill Instructors, if given a choice, prefer to train someone who has no experience shooting. That way there are no bad habits to unlearn and they can train them as an adult from the ground up. Is this true? And is the training one receives from an NRA-style course or at a Police Academy helpful or hurtful to the way one trains soldiers for combat? Grim Jack pointed out in another thread that the needs of police/peacekeepers are often different and even counterproductive to those of the military in a combat zone. Or is shooting and shooting safety the same everywhere and all training helps no matter where it's from?

I worked for the US Treasury Dept. for a while (Sky Marshall), and the mechanics of weapons training are the same. Safety is paramount, and familiarity with the weapon is critical (Loading, location of safety, cleaning, etc.).
The big difference is in the ROE (Rules of engagement). In general a law enforcement officer is greatly restrained in the use of his weapon.The combat soldier usually has looser, and clearer, rules.
That said, this is one of the reasons our missions in Iraq and Afghanistan are such monumental failures. These missions are all too often closer to a law enforcement mission than a combat task, and soldiers don't generally receive this kind of training.
When I say "failure", I refer to the huge number of civilian casualties, which has likely created far more Jihadis than it has eliminated.

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