The Unix Haters Handbook - Page 2

[serkan sendur]

What does that have to do with anything?

it also supports the idea of how c++ sucks.

[jbennet]

The question in hand is not whether C++ is bad, but rather whether UNIX (in specific, linux as a development environment for c++ programming) is bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[~s.o.s~]

> it also supports the idea of how c++ sucks.

Just because Linus thinks C++ sucks doesn't mean we feel the same way; he isn't god you know. Also, AFAICT, he is trying to say that:
- C++ is a difficult language, at least when compared with C
- There are more ways to abuse and more substandard programmers in C++ than in C

As an analogy, please don't hate your OS just because it allows you to format a partition with a single click; with great powers come great responsibility...

[jephthah]

LOL WUT? is this a love letter to Narue?

well... damn. I just don't know what else to say.

.

[mvmalderen]

it also supports the idea of how c++ sucks.

> C++ doesn't suck, in fact it has inspired the languages Java and C#, do these also s*ck then ?
> C++ has inspired the creation of those two other languages, I don't think this is because C++ s*cks :) ...

[platinum8]

Book looks pretty cool...

[serkan sendur]

> C++ doesn't suck, in fact it has inspired the languages Java and C#, do these also s*ck then ?
> C++ has inspired the creation of those two other languages, I don't think this is because C++ s*cks :) ...

those concepts were around before c++, have you heard of Cobol, or small talk?

[jbennet]

those concepts were around before c++, have you heard of Cobol, or small talk?

Please explain what you mean. And yet again, i thaught the topic was whether UNIX sucked, not whether C++ sucked...

[serkan sendur]

Please explain what you mean. And yet again, i thaught the topic was whether UNIX sucked, not whether C++ sucked...

object orientation and its concepts did not start with c++, Cobol was utilizing such stuff.

[Narue]

>how about this :
It's a well known and controversial rant that is often quoted out of context. Here's the context if you missed it: Linus thinks C++ is a bad language choice for Git (and similar low level projects). Git is a version control system that's written with similar design views as a file system.

Many of the abstractions from C++ don't make sense for such a project and would only serve to complicate it without buying anything substantial. Linus' logic is sound even if he comes off as a prick in voicing it.

He might have a similar opinion for any project in C++, but Linus isn't a C++ programmer. In much the same way physicists would ignore my rants about how the large hadron collider is poorly designed, C++ programmers should respond to Linus with a similar attitude of "the layman has an uninformed opinion, how quaint".

[jbennet]

object orientation and its concepts did not start with c++, Cobol was utilizing such stuff.

What??????

COBOL came out in like the fifties/sixties and it didnt get Object-Oriented features added in until the late 90s/early 2000s..

C++, on the other hand, had Object-Orientation inlike the late 70s/early 1980s.

Get your facts straight.

[mvmalderen]

What??????

COBOL came out in like the fifties/sixties and it didnt get Object-Oriented features added in until the late 90s/early 2000s..

That's true, COBOL was invented to improve the readability of a program (however unlikely) but it still belongs to the non-structured languages ...

To the OP: If C++ s*cked, why are there then so much professional programmers which prefer it ?

[serkan sendur]

ok maybe i dont remember when object orientation started, but i remember that it started before c++ language.
i suggest that you read that unix haters handbook first, then reclaim your ideas. during weekend i will read other two books which are, the art of programming on unix and philosophy behind unix and linux. i am not biased anyway..

[Ancient Dragon]

A little googling

How Object-Oriented Programming Started

by Ole-Johan Dahl and Kristen Nygaard,
Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo

SIMULA I (1962-65) and Simula 67 (1967) are the two first object-oriented languages. Simula 67 introduced most of the key concepts of object-oriented programming: both objects and classes, subclasses (usually referred to as inheritance) and virtual procedures, combined with safe referencing and mechanisms for bringing into a program collections of program structures described under a common class heading (prefixed blocks).

The Simula languages were developed at the Norwegian Computing Center, Oslo, Norway by Ole-Johan Dahl and Kristen Nygaard. Nygaard's work in Operational Research in the 1950s and early 1960s created the need for precise tools for the description and simulation of complex man-machine systems. In 1961 the idea emerged for developing a language that both could be used for system description (for people) and for system prescription (as a computer program through a compiler). Such a language had to contain an algorithmic language, and Dahl's knowledge of compilers became essential.

More of this article here.

[mvmalderen]

And we're getting programming lessons from Professor Ancient Dragon :P ...

[jbennet]

He knows a lot.

[mvmalderen]

He knows a lot.

That's why I called him a 'Professor' (with a capital) ...

[serkan sendur]

he is at your father's age, that is natural that he knows a lot.

[NicAx64]

finish this guys :
somebody loves java somebody loves C++ and somebody
loves C and may be assembly.

we are not here to tell my language is better than you'rs.
This is a badddd mistake that most of those java crews doing !
no C++ expert ( not me ) state that java like language is SUCKS
. But many java crews do state this openly.

!ops ( many members here ) respect other ppls programming language expertise.

for me java is a good programming language but not interested ,
and C++ yes interested ( still learning ) and this is my favorite.
Java is good for java lovers and C++ is good for C++ lovers.

[NicAx64]

he is at your father's age, that is natural that he knows a lot.

True , he got the experience becos of his age. But no-one have the
right to insult some other filed of expertise using that expertise.

use this experience for good . and I want to say you that I'm continuing learning C++.and still it's my favorite.

[scru]

he is at your father's age, that is natural that he knows a lot.

No. That would suggest that the older you are, the more you know, which is just not true.

Case in point: you're older than I am.

[serkan sendur]

No. That would suggest that the older you are, the more you know, which is just not true.

Case in point: you're older than I am.

what makes you think you know better than i do?

[jephthah]

what makes you think you know better than i do?

the very fact that you made this thread?

[serkan sendur]

the very fact that you made this thread?

are you scru's advocate?

[jbennet]

what makes you think you know better than i do?

the quality of your posts?

[jephthah]

looks like jbennet is scru's advocate, too.

it's a conspiracy, i say, a conspiracy.

[serkan sendur]

looks like jbennet is scru's advocate, too.

it's a conspiracy, i say, a conspiracy.

this single serkan sendur will handle all of your conspiracy.. :)

[jbennet]

hahah. Be nice, people ;) No conspiracy here.

This thread has gone so far off-topic (was it ever really ontopic in the first place?).

[Narue]

>no C++ expert ( not me ) state that java like language is SUCKS
Java sucks[1]. Of course, C++ sucks too.

[1] I'm called a C++ expert enough that I suppose I can disprove your statement.

[vegaseat]

If you experienced the clumsiness of Windows Vista, Unix or Linux is a breath of fresh air! We need a book titled:
"The Vista Haters' Handbook"