Windows? Why would anyone run Windows? - Page 6

[almostbob]

OPP and NSW Police
I live in both countries, they can be described equally
The best Police Force money can buy

[lllllIllIlllI]

The depth of your belief in Windows as a good operating system has quite frankly surprised me.

How shallow your basis for for arguments were quite frankly suprised me.

[The Mad Hatter]

How shallow your basis for for arguments were quite frankly suprised me.

Remember, I was trying to get people talking. I wanted your opinions, not to convince you I was right.

[Grn Xtrm]

Remember, I was trying to get people talking. I wanted your opinions, not to convince you I was right.

Well you definitely got people talking. This thread recieved more than 150 replies in only 9 days. I just hope you learned something useful from this experience. Hope to see you around the software dev forums in the future. (remember no outrageous personal opinions, just help for those who need it) ;)
Regards
~Tom.

[crunchie]

Now that's interesting - I posted yesterday, and that post is missing.

Probably because you linked to a site that hosted pirated software.

[The Mad Hatter]

Well you definitely got people talking. This thread recieved more than 150 replies in only 9 days. I just hope you learned something useful from this experience. Hope to see you around the software dev forums in the future. (remember no outrageous personal opinions, just help for those who need it) ;)
Regards
~Tom.

Tom,
Quite frankly the response was great, and I'd like again to thank everyone who participated.
And to apologize again. If I'd have said what I was doing at the start, it would have changed your responses.

[jbennet]

Now that's interesting - I posted yesterday, and that post is missing.

it contained a link to warez, so it was removed and you recieved an infraction.

[crunchie]

Now that's interesting - I posted yesterday, and that post is missing.

it contained a link to warez, so it was removed and you recieved an infraction.

He appears to be ignoring that fact, like he ignored other comments throughout the thread.
Personally I think what he is coming out with now is all BS to cover the fact that he is a Mac/Apple/Linux etc. fanboi.

EDIT. @ The Mad Hatter. So if it was all an exercise, do you rescind all the comments made by yourself?

[lllllIllIlllI]

Personally I think what he is coming out with now is all BS to cover the fact that he is a Mac/Apple/Linux etc. fanboi.

It seems a convenient way of saying "Yeah, i lost" without actually saying anything about it.

[The Mad Hatter]

[quotre]Now that's interesting - I posted yesterday, and that post is missing.
it contained a link to warez, so it was removed and you recieved an infraction.

it contained a link to warez, so it was removed and you recieved an infraction.
He appears to be ignoring that fact, like he ignored other comments throughout the thread.
Personally I think what he is coming out with now is all BS to cover the fact that he is a Mac/Apple/Linux etc. fanboi.
EDIT. @ The Mad Hatter. So if it was all an exercise, do you rescind all the comments made by yourself?

It seems a convenient way of saying "Yeah, i lost" without actually saying anything about it.

Now that's open to debate. Assuming you own a copy of Windows Vista, and someone puts up a modified version for download, is it technically a "warez"? However the message that I'm talking about, which appears to have disappeared, did not contain a link to that file on The Pirate Bay. I have to admit some curiosity as to how Longhorn Reloaded compared to Vista, since it allegedly contained some of the features that didn't end up being included in the production version of Vista. I mean, did they actually work (Longhorn Reloaded was supposed to have been built around an MSDN beta kernel release according to this article from Ars which said it was bit of a mess).

As to "rescinding" my comments - which ones and why? I truly believe that 'Nix based operating systems are superior to Windows. My experiences with Solaris, BSD (including OSX), Linux have been good, while my experiences with Windows have been terrible. So, no, I'm not going to say nice things about Windows.

But hey, if it works for you - that's fine.

[crunchie]

Assuming you own a copy of Windows Vista, and someone puts up a modified version for download, is it technically a "warez"?

Yes, it is. If MS or other authorised retail outlet hasn't sold it to you, then it is not a legal copy.

[majestic0110]

Does this guy ever stop? <rant rant rant...ad infinitum>

[mvmalderen]

I'm only going to say one thing:

"Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

That's maybe a reason for anyone out here to stop arguing.
Even when you continue arguing for a century or longer, people will always have different opinions and there's no one who can ever change this fact.
There's only one person who doesn't seem to get it and that is The Mad Hatter.

[The Mad Hatter]

Yes, it is. If MS or other authorised retail outlet hasn't sold it to you, then it is not a legal copy.

I know - it was just a rhetorical question. I think that you should be able to modify your operating system. Microsoft thinks you shouldn't be able to. They won't convince me, and I won't convince them.

[The Mad Hatter]

Does this guy ever stop? <rant rant rant...ad infinitum>

I'm only going to say one thing:
That's maybe a reason for anyone out here to stop arguing.
Even when you continue arguing for a century or longer, people will always have different opinions and there's no one who can ever change this fact.
There's only one person who doesn't seem to get it and that is The Mad Hatter.

I've already admitted that I get you. You like Windows. I dislike Windows. You like Pepsi, I like Coke.

I still find it a bit ridiculous though that someone who uses "tux4life" as an alias likes Windows, and dislikes Linux. It's just soooo wrong!

[mvmalderen]

I still find it a bit ridiculous though that someone who uses "tux4life" as an alias likes Windows, and dislikes Linux. It's just soooo wrong!

Well, that's because I was not aware of the fact that I'd be a Linux island in a sea of Windows users at the time I chose my alias :P
You have to understand that my brothers and I share one computer which can be used by three of us at the same time (thanks to terminal services).
I don't want to be selfish and have a Linux install which can only be used by one of us (myself of course :P) at a time, and yes: I know you can set up Linux as a terminal server as well, but I never managed to do it, I still prefer those couple of clicks I have to do in Windows to set it up as opposed to this real nightmare in Linux (for me).
When I could get this right, then I can start thinking about partly migrating to Linux (and still having a dual boot with Windows for gaming).
I hope you understand my point of view about Linux, there are just some drawbacks for me (my wireless card which I can't get to work (you know, I'm really internet-dependent) and in Windows it's only a matter of quickly installing some drivers from a CD which came with the box; another important thing is that I really need terminal services (or multiseat)).
Those drawbacks make it very difficult for me to start using Linux, it just requires too much time for me to get things right under Linux.
I just want an OS where I (and my environment (e.g. family)) feel comfortable with (this involves that I just can't permit to let all those crucial things take up sooooo much of my expensive time).

I've already admitted that I get you. You like Windows. I dislike Windows. You like Pepsi, I like Coke.

Just to get things right: I dislike Pepsi, I prefer *real* coke from the Coca-Cola company :D.

[The Mad Hatter]

Well, that's because I was not aware of the fact that I'd be a Linux island in a sea of Windows users at the time I chose my alias :P
You have to understand that my brothers and I share one computer which can be used by three of us at the same time (thanks to terminal services).
I don't want to be selfish and have a Linux install which can only be used by one of us (myself of course :P) at a time, and yes: I know you can set up Linux as a terminal server as well, but I never managed to do it, I still prefer those couple of clicks I have to do in Windows to set it up as opposed to this real nightmare in Linux (for me).
When I could get this right, then I can start thinking about partly migrating to Linux (and still having a dual boot with Windows for gaming).
I hope you understand my point of view about Linux, there are just some drawbacks for me (my wireless card which I can't get to work (you know, I'm really internet-dependent) and in Windows it's only a matter of quickly installing some drivers from a CD which came with the box; another important thing is that I really need terminal services (or multiseat)).
Those drawbacks make it very difficult for me to start using Linux, it just requires too much time for me to get things right under Linux.
I just want an OS where I (and my environment (e.g. family)) feel comfortable with (this involves that I just can't permit to let all those crucial things take up sooooo much of my expensive time).

Ouch. We have eight working computers and five people here, so Terminal Server hasn't been an issue for us. I've seen Terminal Server setups on Linux, but never done it myself.

Just to get things right: I dislike Pepsi, I prefer *real* coke from the Coca-Cola company :D.

Heh. Back when they introduced "New Coke", Coca Cola was a customer of mine. As suppliers we could buy direct from the factory, and I was damned popular at Geek parties locally because I'd show up with a case of the real thing rather than a case of beer.

[crunchie]

I just want an OS where I (and my environment (e.g. family)) feel comfortable with (this involves that I just can't permit to let all those crucial things take up sooooo much of my expensive time).

So, you want one that "just works" :D

[crunchie]

I know - it was just a rhetorical question. I think that you should be able to modify your operating system. Microsoft thinks you shouldn't be able to. They won't convince me, and I won't convince them.

Modifying Windows was/is not the issue here (I run a stripped out version of XP on another pc). The issue is linking to warez sites.

[mvmalderen]

AFAIK 'stripped' is not illegal, as long as you own a legal copy of the software, and you've stripped it down yourself.
But Microsoft doesn't provide support for stripped-down versions of Windows (like the ones made by nlite), though I don't care about that because I've never actually needed technical support from Microsoft.

[jbennet]

But Microsoft doesn't provide support for stripped-down versions of Windows (like the ones made by nlite

delete the nlite key from the registry and they are none the wiser - as it otherwise appears like any other slipstreamed install (which aught to be supported seeing as MS have a howto for it in thier windows deployment kit)

[vegaseat]

I wait till Google comes out with their OS.

Does anyone have experience with vLite that is supposed to remove the bloat from Vista and make it snappier?

[The Mad Hatter]

Modifying Windows was/is not the issue here (I run a stripped out version of XP on another pc). The issue is linking to warez sites.

The Pirate Bay is not a Warez site, it's a Torrent Tracker, and carries a wide selection of legal content, such as the movie Nasty Old People which is being torrented by it's Director, Hanna Sköld (note that the movie is in Swedish with English subtitles). A lot of people are using The Pirate Bay as a content distribution platform now, including Nine Inch Nails who torrented their last album there.

AFAIK 'stripped' is not illegal, as long as you own a legal copy of the software, and you've stripped it down yourself.
But Microsoft doesn't provide support for stripped-down versions of Windows (like the ones made by nlite), though I don't care about that because I've never actually needed technical support from Microsoft.

Stripped isn't what I meant. You aren't legally allowed to modify most of the system files (according to Microsoft), even if you are fixing something that is causing you problems. This has never been tested in court though, and God knows if it would hold up under the "First Sale" doctrine in the United States or Canada. Quite probably it wouldn't.

[William Hemsworth]

The Pirate Bay is not a Warez site, it's a Torrent Tracker, and carries a wide selection of legal content, such as the movie Nasty Old People which is being torrented by it's Director, Hanna Sköld (note that the movie is in Swedish with English subtitles). A lot of people are using The Pirate Bay as a content distribution platform now, including Nine Inch Nails who torrented their last album there.

The rules go:

do not post anything warez related

The pirate bay primarily links to torrent files (almost always to illegal files), "anything warez related" covers alot, including your link.

[jbennet]

You aren't legally allowed to modify most of the system files (according to Microsoft), even if you are fixing something that is causing you problems.

You are 100% definately licenced to apply official parches to your windows install media. e.g integrate service packs and hotixes such as you do with nlite. MS state this in thier deployment guide for administrators.

Does anyone have experience with vLite that is supposed to remove the bloat from Vista and make it snappier?

yes, as i said, remove the vlite registry key or else any MS service packs will fail to install. Stripped down versions are NOT supported, because e.g a service pack or patch may rely on something which is not present, leading to an inconsistent state. I would stay away from that aspeact and just use vlite to integrate the vista SPs into your CD.

Server 2008 is the only system where stripping down the OS is formally supported (because its designed with modular design to reduce attack surface)

God knows if it would hold up under the "First Sale" doctrine in the United States or Canada

it would likely fail (as it did in court in europe) because, as the EULA states, software is not sold, but licenced. You arent buying the software, but the right to use it as per those licence terms. Its the same as buying say, a satellite TV subscription. The product (ability to view) is for you in your own home only, and is not transferrable.

Re: MAD HATTER

Modifying Windows was/is not the issue here. And i am not questioning the legality of certain sites. The reason an infraction was given to you by me was because you linked to a copy of windows. An infraction would have been given regardless of where it was hosted or whether it was verbatim or modified. The reason it was given was purely because it constiututed unaurthaurised distribution of copyrighted materials and therefore falls foul of our warez rule.

[The Mad Hatter]

The pirate bay primarily links to torrent files (almost always to illegal files), "anything warez related" covers alot, including your link.

This is incorrect. There is a lot of legal content on The Pirate Bay. A lot of the smaller film makers use it for distribution, as do a lot of bands. From a legal stand point your statement that The Pirate Bay is a "Warez" site is not correct, and if The Pirate Bay group was litigious, would quite possibly be actionable.
Calling it a torrent site, and noting that there are a lot of illegal torrents (at least they are illegal in the United States, other countries have other laws), is fine.
At which point I have a question - where is Daniweb located (I'm curious as to what laws the site operates under).

[The Mad Hatter]

You are 100% definately licenced to apply official parches to your windows install media. e.g integrate service packs and hotixes such as you do with nlite. MS state this in thier deployment guide for administrators.

Well duh! Of course you are licensed to use Microsoft's patches. I'm talking about making your own, or editing the executable files with a Hex editor.
The current EULA does not allow this.

Modifying Windows was/is not the issue here. And i am not questioning the legality of certain sites. The reason an infraction was given to you by me was because you linked to a copy of windows. An infraction would have been given regardless of where it was hosted or whether it was verbatim or modified. The reason it was given was purely because it constiututed unaurthaurised distribution of copyrighted materials and therefore falls foul of our warez rule.[/B]

It "constiututed unaurthaurised"? Spell check. Always spell check.

Distributing a copy of "Longhorn Reloaded" would be legal in some countries. In the United States and Canada it would be. Since I don't know the location of Daniweb, I don't know what laws it operates under (I am assuming the United States).

Now, I didn't argue about posting the link - I shouldn't have done that without first checking to see what the rules were. The discussion about modifying Windows was a side thought, and I think a legitimate topic of discussion. Can you legally hex edit your own copy?

[Evenbit]

Just a quick note about this "unaurthaurised distribution" of a protected product: Microsoft has provided an authorized download (including a valid install key) of its OSs in certain instances.

For instance, for enterprise clients who purchase licenses in bulk, they provided a CD ISO of Windows XP at their website so that clients would not have to wait for the product to be shipped to them. The legal purchase of the license was handled separately from the actual attainment of the product.

Another example involves early versions of the Acer AspireOne netbook which were factory loaded with Linux. Enough users expressed an interest in running Windows that Acer negotiated with Microsoft to provide an official release of WinXP SP3 that has been tailored and tested to run on AspireOne machines. The only way to obtain a copy is via the link on the Acer blog post about the subject.

Just my 2-cents worth as a quick FYI. Back to your fun Windows vs. Linux discussion. Pretend I wasn't here... carry on...

Nathan.

[crunchie]

It "constiututed unaurthaurised"? Spell check. Always spell check.

Now you sound like a spoiled child who has been caught out. You should not cast stones as your English is not perfect either.

[Evenbit]

Now, I didn't argue about posting the link - I shouldn't have done that without first checking to see what the rules were. The discussion about modifying Windows was a side thought, and I think a legitimate topic of discussion. Can you legally hex edit your own copy?

As to where Daniweb is located, a little 'net searching can shed light on that. For instance, I found this Frugal Friday interview which is very interesting to listen to:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/frugaltechshow/2009/01/16/Frugal-Friday-with-guest-Dani-Horowitz-from-DaniWebcom

Can you legally hex edit your own copy?

I'm sure that there exist attorneys who will point to recent reverse-engineering legislation as proof that it is illegal to do something like that in the country that *I* reside in. Same goes for most of the Daniweb participating audience. This is why such subjects are not considered "a legitimate topic of discussion" on most technical forums -- it is a safety precaution to protect all participants... including you.

Nathan.