Can you tell?

[frogboy77]

Is there a way of telling from a post (including my own) if someone just isn't cut out for programming?
For example a really simple piece of logic not being understood (as opposed to a lack of knowledge of the language).

[jonsca]

I would say no, at least not evaluating them over the long term. Sometimes it takes longer for something to click with someone, but once they understand it, they're off. If people ask what might seem like stupid questions, they may be chipping away at it, but then suddenly understand it "better" than you do. Then there are the people that are lazy, and they might always be lazy. That's not always a guarantee either, since there are some people who really have gone through some s--- or don't have the time, etc.

However, your post makes me believe you aren't cut out to post in the Geeks' Lounge ;) My post says I spend far too much time here, procrastinating.

[AndreRet]

I spend far too much time here, procrastinating.

Don't we all!! ;)

What I did find annoying is posters asking questions about the basic stuff, which is hard for them to grasp, and before you can say "code", they post an even more advanced question, trying to get to the much more involved topics in a sudden. This tells me they are either lazy or really optimistic.:)

[debasisdas]

no they expect spoon feeding....

[AndreRet]

Very true, and it P*%$es me off, especially if you give them code samples and they STILL come back and ask for a TOTAL solution.:)

[jonsca]

What I did find annoying is posters asking questions about the basic stuff, which is hard for them to grasp, and before you can say "code", they post an even more advanced question, trying to get to the much more involved topics in a sudden. This tells me they are either lazy or really optimistic.:)

I refer to those threads as an ambush (I really do).
You get someone posting code missing a semicolon, you tell them how to fix it, and they're sometimes like "by the way, here's 3000 lines of a library I'm rewriting from scratch, I don't know where the error is."

[AndreRet]

by the way, here's 3000 lines of a library I'm rewriting from scratch, I don't know where the error is."

Don't I just know the feeling. I have recently started forcing a reply on a line number and the error, otherwise I just ignore the post completely.;)

[jwenting]

Another low is people posting code in the wrong language when asked to show what they've already done.
Sometimes complete with comment headers attributing it to other people.

[sania85]

people just post the code that others will make it error free.and they enjoy it without getting any pain....

[VernonDozier]

>> I refer to those threads as an ambush (I really do).

I never thought about it in that term, but damn, you're right. It's manipulative and hostile, isn't it?

>> You get someone posting code missing a semicolon, you tell them how to fix it, and they're sometimes like "by the way, here's 3000 lines of a library I'm rewriting from scratch, I don't know where the error is."

It's the online version of "Can you be a dear and help me move that TV across the room?", followed by, "Oh, while I have you here, can you...". Eight hours later you've realized that you've been suckered. Didn't notice the moving van in the driveway in the beginning...

I believe there's a sales term for the method. If you had realized what it was from the beginning, you would have run the other way, but by the time you do, you already, for some stupid reason, feel committed to continue.

[AndreRet]

:)

Thats why I am running the other way these days... Ok, strolling the other way.;)

[Ancient Dragon]

It took several years before I could write C code without use of a very good reference book next to my computer. I was constantly looking up functions and their parameters just to make sure I was coding it correctly. Then I learned to use debuggers and how to use them to quickly figure out problems with the code I wrote.

I don't see that effort much here at DaniWeb. Many students don't want to put in the time and effort needed to learn a language. Instead they want other people to spoon-feed the answers.

Another problem I see here occasionally is someone who doesn't understand the answers they are given. They ask a question, one or two people offer correct solutions, but the OP asks the same question again because they didn't understand the answers given.

[AndreRet]

I see here occasionally is someone who doesn't understand the answers they are given

My point exactly, they want to jump from beginner to super advanced in 10 seconds.

You will basically provide a simple solution to a simple question "What is a picture?" and the next post will be "How do I add the picture to a database, how do I break it down to bytes" etc.

If you do not even know what a picture is, how the hell will you know how to manipulate it in your application!:)

[mrnutty]

Hey look at it this way, if thats what your competing with, then you're golden. People these days are just pure virtual const lazy. They have no intention to do the actual research and learn from it. But the bottom line I believe is that they have no passion for programming. See, most people that are passionate about programming, actually do research before asking question, not only because its smarter to do so, but it in effect will help one learn more. But these noobs that post here( in C++ section at least ), do not really have a passion for it. They just want to either feel cool about being able to do something similar to those hacking movies they watch, or just get their assignment done and be a mediocre person in life.

>Is there a way of telling from a post (including my own) if someone just isn't cut out for programming?

No there isn't. Just like all things in life people have the ability to change. Sure, it might take a long time, but as long as the brain is functional you can learn to be very good at something. Just depends on the kid's commitment and willingness to put in the hard work.

[VernonDozier]

I'm wondering if in addition to the passion, time commitment, and attitude, if there's a certain personality and approach to life involved. If you don't have that general personality, and I haven't precisely nailed down what that personality entails, you'll perhaps have a harder time. I find myself often having a very hard time picking up painting, new languages, musical instruments, and dance moves because I'm constantly over-analyzing. People who can turn that off and "allow the soul to take over" seem to do much better, regardless of effort. I'm wondering if these same folks might have the same problem picking up programming from scratch that a very analytical person would not.

[frogboy77]

Kind of my point. Are some people just right for the job? I have attempted to learn 3 musical instruments, became (at best) average on all 3 but had the underlying suspicion that i would never be good at any. We won't mention the dancing. The painting thing is only stick men, i don't even get the classics (looks like kids stuff). Now maths i like and seem to have an ability for (small may it be). Would this kind of mindset be helpful for a programmer? Or is an artistic flair required?

[VernonDozier]

Just remembered this similar thread. I had hoped all sorts of people would chime in but they didn't.

http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/cpp/threads/349955

Programming is a big field, so it has room for a lot of different personalities. As far as the "artistic flair" goes, to the extent that very often you'll keep the user interface/GUI design separate from the underlying implementation code of stuff like Action Listeners when a button is pressed, you may be best off having two completely separate people, each responsible for different aspects. Normally I think labeling jobs causes more division than clarification, but to the extent that there's a "designer" and a "programmer", the programmer doesn't need any artistic flair. It's always best for everyone to understand each other's job.

I tend to think I can peg people fairly quickly by the language they use. Ask someone for directions from the airport to their house. If they start saying stuff like "go past the white picket fence, then take a left on the dirt road, go past some green mailboxes, etc.", that represents a certain mentality. Often times these folks have no idea what the street names are or what the house numbers are. If they quote any distances, it'll be quite imprecise. Everything is landmark based. If on the other hand they start talking like "Travel north on G St. for 3 kilometers, take a sharp left on Warrington Rd., then proceed southwest for 2.5 kilometers..." that's another mentality. If they throw in GPS coordinates, actual compass readings, precise measurements like 1.3 kilometers (or if they use the work "kilometers" instead of "miles" in the US), etc., you know exactly who you have. I'm not making a judgment on the former group except that it's my experience that they tend not to be scientists/engineers/programmers.

[susheelsundar]

no they expect spoon feeding....

And i still don't understand why everyone wants spoon feeding from only you :P

[e-papa]

I don't think so, but you can know the level of commitment.

[jonsca]

it's my experience that they tend not to be scientists/engineers/programmers.

I think you can say that is true in a majority of cases, but I've known a handful of people that put sort of an "artistic" spin on technical jobs, and they tend to be good "big picture" type thinkers.