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Anders Behring Breivik killed about 80 people on Friday in Oslo, Norway. He first detonated a bomb in the building (which killed 7 people) and then went to an Island Camp that was sponsored by a Norwegian ruling party, Social Left party, and killed about 70 people there.

He did it all just to advertise his book 2083 A European Declaration of Independence. Out of curiosity I downloaded the book. I disagree with most of the contents of the book because it is too ideological and extremistic. Plus I am not racist and more of a left-winger. But I think if he advertised it differently (and hired a nice editor), it could have made a greater impact. Now I think only extreme racist nationalist will read the book, because of what he has done. The Revolutions are made by small groups of intellectuals, not by a lot of stupid racist teens. If he just published it, more normal people would read it and therefore it would get to a more wider audience.

But even through I am not racist, and most of you are not either, I still think no-one wants to be the colorless "gray" race. Every culture has unique history, language, traditions, etc., and we should try to preserve them.

CNN news first reported Anders as being insane and then in another article said he was not "insane" or mad, but a psychopathy. I think this is complete bullsh!t. Psychopaths first kill people and then make up stories just for the fun of it. He is clearly worried for Europeans, worried enough to kill 80 people and go to jail for 20 years (which is max time in Norway). I think he is just paranoid.

I think the main problem everywhere is religion, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, are all violent (remember Crusades?). They are the ways for Kings and Queens to control there people. If there was no Religions there would be no Muslim extremists.

Also CNN now reports that now people will know that there is not only Muslim terrorists but also White once too. I also think this is B.S. because 99% of terrorists are Muslims. So if I say "All Terrorists are Muslims", I will only be wrong 1% of the time :D. Plus Muslims want to spread Islam everywhere and Anders only wanted to protect his own race (by killiong 70 people?). I think what he has done is unacceptable but I can understand it to some degree.

What do you think?

Votes + Comments
I think that is plain racist how you reflect muslims that way... I think 99% of muslims are more successful than you and 1% are more successful but are not sharing that they are a success.
"99% of terrorists are Muslims" Yeah, right...
Not much in your thoughts that i agree with
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  • I think you should decide whether you want to be taken seriously or not. You make it easy for people to write you off as an immature kid when you write stuff like this... [url]http://www.daniweb.com/community-center/geeks-lounge/threads/373466/page3[/url] [quote] I support National Socialism. [/quote] Real opinion? Just trying to get a rise out … Read More

  • Maybe try to stay on topic¿ Read More

  • [QUOTE=pseudorandom21;1610584]I do believe there are things worth dying for, but the dude is obviously in the wrong. You don't just kill people to promote a book! Unless the book is going to save the world, but somehow I doubt that if we don't read it the world will split in … Read More

  • I think he is just a psycho who thinks too much about anything, who is trying to be reasonable and ends up being unreasonable. He is just trying to make a point through pointless action. [QUOTE=sergent;1610382]Anders Behring Breivik killed about 80 people on Friday in Oslo, Norway. He first detonated … Read More

  • [QUOTE=sergent;1630502]Not all Muslims are terrorist, and Islam's Koran is no worse then the bible, but you can interpret it differently.[/QUOTE] Now this is completely offensive to Muslims and Christians. I wouldn't speak about the Holy Qur'an or the Holy Bible like that. Given the fact that you just say something … Read More

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I think you should decide whether you want to be taken seriously or not. You make it easy for people to write you off as an immature kid when you write stuff like this...


http://www.daniweb.com/community-center/geeks-lounge/threads/373466/page3

I support National Socialism.

Real opinion? Just trying to get a rise out of people? Who knows. I'm hoping the latter.


>> But I think if he advertised it differently (and hired a nice editor), it could have made a greater impact.

Regarding the manifesto, a few people will read it and they'll talk about the highlights on the news for a while. This isn't going to spark the masses to read his manifesto. But one things for sure. More people will now than if he hadn't killed a bunch of people. If he had simply published it, about the same number of people would have read it as would have read Mein Kampf or the Unabomber manifesto if THEY hadn't killed anyone, namely pretty close to zero. So for pure readership and getting his cause out there, unfortunately he made a good move.

As to whether he's insane, who knows. Leave that to the shrinks. My guess is he truly believed in his cause and sacrificed himself for it. Ditto Timothy McVeigh. Ditto the 9/11 hijackers. Most people don't have any use for the cause or the methods though. The "Knights Templar" angle seems quite dated. I haven't heard many Free-masonry conspiracies, either for or against, in decades. They used to either get blame or credit for everything, but that was long ago. This guy just revived it.

Edited by VernonDozier: n/a

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I think you should decide whether you want to be taken seriously or not. You make it easy for people to write you off as an immature kid when you stuff like this...

I DO like some aspects of Socialism and it seems the only time it worked was under Mussolini in Italy, and it was based on Nations, and not on classes.
I don't see why I can't joke around sometimes and be serious other times.

This isn't going to spark the masses to read his manifesto. But one things for sure. More people will now than if he hadn't killed a bunch of people.

I guess it maybe so, but this was the "easy" way to become famous. If he truly was a genius and a great leader he could have organized a political party, published several more books, and people would take him more serious and not write him off as a extremistic terrorist. But it is not a fact. Anyone can go around and kill a bunch of people, but it takes talent and true intelligence to become famous for other reasons.

My guess is he truly believed in his cause and sacrificed himself for it.

Believing in his cause can make him sacrifice himself, but killing 70 people makes him paranoid, extremist, schizophrenic. ISLAMOPHOBIC.

Edited by sergent: n/a

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I DO like some aspects of Socialism and it seems the only time it worked was under Mussolini in Italy, and it was based on Nations, and not on classes.

Just trust me on this one. Fair or not, no one gives a damn about the phrase "National Socialism". It's immediately translated into "Nazi" regardless of what you meant. I had a (former) friend who would go to these meetings trying to disassociate it from Nazism. No one bought it. No one is going to try to parse it into "National" and "Socialism". No "socialist" is ever going to refer to himself as a "National Socialist". And no, it didn't "work" under Mussolini. He was hung upside down and stoned by his own people, so they must not have felt it worked too well. It's just a hot-button issue. It's considered a failed, corrupt, evil ideology. Few are going to entertain the concept that Hitler/Mussolini got ANYTHING right.

I don't see why I can't joke around sometimes and be serious other times.

You can, but not about that. Or at least, do it at your own peril. I mean, guys like George Carlin and Sam Kinison and Jimmy Carr felt/feel nothing was off limits and would /will joke about just about anything, and there are ways to pull off just about anything. But you have to understand social dynamics to really make a good choice about when/whether/how to do it and what the consequences are. Take it from someone who at 14 made a lot of comments like that and got into hot water that I never imagined. Not trying to talk down to you.

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"I also think this is B.S. because 99% of terrorists are Muslims. So if I say "All Terrorists are Muslims", I will only be wrong 1% of the time"

That is completely false, most terrorists are separatists in Europe.

"n fact, Europol only tracked one effective Islamist terrorist attack in Europe during 2009 – Mohammed Game’s unsuccessful attempt to carry out a suicide bombing on a Milan military barracks – in contrast to 237 attacks defined as separatist, 40 attacks by left-wing groups and an additional 124 attacks in Northern Ireland (for Mohammed Game’s attack see Terrorism Monitor, November 19, 2009). There were also a smattering of right-wing attacks, single issue attacks and attacks with no definable political orientation." See: http://raffaellopantucci.com/2010/06/06/europol-report-suggests-separatism-rather-than-islamism-constitutes-biggest-terrorist-threat-to-europe/ for more details.

In the USA I expect there are more terrorist attacks by right wing or christian extremists than by Muslims.

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"I still think no-one wants to be the colorless "gray" race."

The people who want the 'gray race' are advertisers and the companies who rely on advertising. And the Xenophobes. But multiculturalism can and does work under the right circumstances and creates a more vibrant, successful society. But multiculturalism requires some integration, the key I think is to have a small number of ideas/activities that make up a national identity these permit new comers to integrate and feel part of their new come without giving up their own culture.

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I still don't believe in his cause.He had no right to do that and even if he had something to tell the world or some sort of publicity, please there are ways of letting your opinion known and not just known but count. Now that he has made himself clear by releasing the book and causing world alert, his revolution is a dead one because no one would follow.

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I do believe there are things worth dying for, but the dude is obviously in the wrong. You don't just kill people to promote a book! Unless the book is going to save the world, but somehow I doubt that if we don't read it the world will split in half and shoot demons from it's core (hey that might be a cool book).

Shooter = Crazy.

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I do believe there are things worth dying for, but the dude is obviously in the wrong. You don't just kill people to promote a book! Unless the book is going to save the world, but somehow I doubt that if we don't read it the world will split in half and shoot demons from it's core (hey that might be a cool book).

Shooter = Crazy.

to me, the guy is a frustrated soul. Maybe he felt he has done something so good and worth recognition but the world was not just giving him the attention he deserved. Well, lets not be biased judges, maybe we should all read the book

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to me, the guy is a frustrated soul. Maybe he felt he has done something so good and worth recognition but the world was not just giving him the attention he deserved. Well, lets not be biased judges, maybe we should all read the book

The guy is not denying killing people including children. There is no excuse for that.

If you want free publicity for your cause go on a reality show, or start a protest
If your willing to face jail time cream-pie a politician, graffiti the houses of parliament or a mosque.

You don't kill innocent people.

Votes + Comments
yes.
-1

Just trust me on this one. Fair or not, no one gives a damn about the phrase "National Socialism". It's immediately translated into "Nazi" regardless of what you meant. I had a (former) friend who would go to these meetings trying to disassociate it from Nazism. No one bought it. No one is going to try to parse it into "National" and "Socialism". No "socialist" is ever going to refer to himself as a "National Socialist". And no, it didn't "work" under Mussolini. He was hung upside down and stoned by his own people, so they must not have felt it worked too well. It's just a hot-button issue. It's considered a failed, corrupt, evil ideology. Few are going to entertain the concept that Hitler/Mussolini got ANYTHING right.

Well, to me, there is a big difference. There would be no Hitler without National Socialism, but there would be National Socialism without Hitler. And BEFORE Mussolini teamed up with Hitler, Italy was doing great, many famous people respected him and liked the government of Italy. If you want to, I can say I like Socialism, not National Socialism, but not the one with "Proletariat of all countries unite", which they had in Soviet Union. The one in Soviet Union definetly did not work. They supported small 3rd world countries and wasted a lot of money. For example, they bought sugar from Cuba, for much more then it was actually worth, and spend several billion dollars on installing weapons in Cuba, while people in Soviet Union had little food to eat. There is still minor versions of Socialism in some countries that work great, for example Labour Party of Norway, and Sweden. Also Progressivism and liberalism are decendants of National Socialism, albeit less ugly one, and many people do not want to accept it. For example war-on-smoking and drinking. Nazis also were organic crazy.

Maybe this is the problem with free speech? Stupid kids like me can talk bullcrap and say stupid stuff that smart grown-ups don't agree with. It also encourages rather extrimistic groups to arise and come to power.

The people who want the 'gray race' are advertisers and the companies who rely on advertising. And the Xenophobes. But multiculturalism can and does work under the right circumstances and creates a more vibrant, successful society. But multiculturalism requires some integration, the key I think is to have a small number of ideas/activities that make up a national identity these permit new comers to integrate and feel part of their new come without giving up their own culture.

Yes, it does seem to work now, but we only had it for less then 40 years. America used to be racist, segregating country, until about 40 years ago. This may not work out in the long run. We want peace, and "they" want war. Think about Native Americans when Europeans came here. Native Americans welcomed them, and were nice to Europeans, but Europeans started to take there land, kill there animals, and destroy there culture. Look at Native Americans now, living in small conservation areas.

Most of the 3rd world countries have a fast growing populations and most European, developed countries have decreasing one. I am an Immigrant myself, I came from Ukraine (a crappy small East European country that probably have the highest rate of drinking related death after Russia, and the only thing it is famous for is Chernobili). But because there is not that many Ukranians here, most of my friends are American, and I am forced to learn English in schools, and I am losing my Ukranian "heritage". What's the result? I came here 3 and 1/2 years ago, and I had a Hispanic friend from Mexico, who lived here 1 more year then me. We used to go to the same classes for non-English speaking kids (we had to go), and I went there only for 1 year, and he still goes to that class (it is determined by English Test results). In that class ALL the kids were Hispanic, exept me, and another Turkish kid that went to a school for only 3 month and then moved back to Turkey. Teacher was Hispanic, and she told all the instructions in Spanish, and then some of the Instructions to me in English. I felt left out, and while in that class I learned (was forced to learn) a lot of Spanish. By the rules she was not supposed to speak in Spanish but she did anyway. And instead of helping those kids learn English, it only made them not learn English for even longer. So as I see it, a country can handle relatively little number of immigrants. Beyond some point it starts to lose its own culture. And I think I somewhat agree with Anders, that it is better to have a closed to immigrants country like Japan or South Korea. But it should be done by laws, and there still should be no segragation or racism. For example Russia has a small number of Immigrants because in Moscow there is many group of racist nationalists who beat up black, Azerbaijanian, and other minorities. Government sometimes arrests those people, but not often, because they don't want many immigrants either. I think this is unnacceptable way to do it. Azerbaijanian immigrants work probably 3x harder and cheaper then the Russian workers, who are always drunk. And they are really nice people too.

You cant deny the fact that there is more blacks and hispanic people in jails than white. Is that because hispanics/blacks are by nature stupider then white people? No! It is because most of the immigrants come from poor countries like Mexico, which have a higher crime rate, and worse education systems. Does it mean colleges should reserve space for hispanic people just to try to not look racist? I don't think so. I don't think so. It it no one's fault but the individual's. Every person have every resources they need to succeed in this country. They should not be discriminated but the idea of the "white sin" also really annoys me. That was all in the past, and we live in the present. I don't see how we can have equality if we change discrimination from black/hispanic/asian/woman to white males.

Also, I don't like all the "gay" stuff. I think it should be TOLERATED, not encouraged, with all the gay parades and things. I think the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" was absolutely perfect, and if someone is found to be gay they should not be kicked out of military but not encouraged to be gay. It also violates the evolution. If everyone was gay, than the humanity would die out. I don't see how destroying humanity by means of not reproducing is any better then other methods.


By googling "heterosexual" the second result I saw said "Heterosexuality is the most common sexual orientation in the world (but by no means "normal". It is simply more common than some variations of human ..." (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=heterosexual)

How the F* is it not normal??? It is unnatural and we will die out as a species if it was most common sexual orientation. But because there is not as many gays as normal (notice the word normal) people, I think it may be tolerated, but it should be a privilage, not a "right".

This is my views, respect them, and I will respect yours.

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Most of these so called shooters release some extremist bit of propaganda to go along with their act of violence.

I guess it gives them a twisted way to justify what they've done. But if you look closely... most of the reasons are just plain old baloney.

'The reason I am going to shoot up a whole load of people is because 'insert___extremist___rhetoric___here.'

The reason why most these individuals do these things is because they just suck at life... Compounded with clear psychiatric problems, because NO sane individual would shoot up a load of people, this is just like a time bomb waiting to go off.

Unfortunately, with no real psychiatric support and continued rejection in an area of life they clearly suck at, these individuals begin a downward spiral into oblivion.

The sad thing is, all it may have taken, was someone to grab this guy by the scruff of his neck when he was sucking at whatever he was bad at life, shown him how to do it properly... and a few successes later he'd be a normal, happy everyday citizen.

Edited by iamthwee: n/a

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>> Also Progressivism and liberalism are decendants of National Socialism, albeit less ugly one

Wrong.


>> and many people do not want to accept it.

They don't accept it because it isn't true.


>> For example war-on-smoking and drinking. Nazis also were organic crazy.

If you can find a liberal or a progressive suggesting we put people who smoke, drink, or don't eat organic foods in concentration camps, you might have an analogy. Till then...

>> Maybe this is the problem with free speech? Stupid kids like me can talk bullcrap and say stupid stuff that smart grown-ups don't agree with.

ALL 14 year old kids say stupid things that smart and not-so-smart grown-ups don't agree with. There's not a one of us who can't look back at age 14 and think, "Wow, can't believe I said that...". It's got nothing to do with free speech. Post all you want. It's a free country. No one's going to arrest you.

>> But because there is not as many gays as normal (notice the word normal) people, I think it may be tolerated, but it should be a privilage, not a "right".

Now you're bugging me. Maybe if you crack a history book, you'll understand why. "Normal". "Tolerate". "Privilege". "Right". Those are some dangerous terms. Someday someone starts deciding that those pesky gay people have too many "privileges" and that we're "tolerating" them too much. Might need to round 'em up and teach 'em a lesson, prevent them from infecting the general population with their sickness. If you want to talk free speech, then gay parades are a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. It's as clear-cut as it gets. Freedom of Expression. Freedom of Assembly. They don't need anyone's permission.

Edited by VernonDozier: n/a

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Yeah maybe %99 terrorists are Muslim but %100 despot occupiers are Christian. So blaming religions is not a way to describe that.

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Most of these so called shooters release some extremist bit of propaganda to go along with their act of violence.

I guess it gives them a twisted way to justify what they've done. But if you look closely... most of the reasons are just plain old baloney.

'The reason I am going to shoot up a whole load of people is because 'insert___extremist___rhetoric___here.'

The reason why most these individuals do these things is because they just suck at life... Compounded with clear psychiatric problems, because NO sane individual would shoot up a load of people, this is just like a time bomb waiting to go off.

Unfortunately, with no real psychiatric support and continued rejection in an area of life they clearly suck at, these individuals begin a downward spiral into oblivion.

The sad thing is, all it may have taken, was someone to grab this guy by the scruff of his neck when he was sucking at whatever he was bad at life, shown him how to do it properly... and a few successes later he'd be a normal, happy everyday citizen.

You might shoot up a bunch of people if they were about to become human-flesh-eating zombies.

1

I think he is just a psycho who thinks too much about anything, who is trying to be reasonable and ends up being unreasonable. He is just trying to make a point through pointless action.

Anders Behring Breivik killed about 80 people on Friday in Oslo, Norway. He first detonated a bomb in the building (which killed 7 people) and then went to an Island Camp that was sponsored by a Norwegian ruling party, Social Left party, and killed about 70 people there.

He did it all just to advertise his book 2083 A European Declaration of Independence. Out of curiosity I downloaded the book. I disagree with most of the contents of the book because it is too ideological and extremistic. Plus I am not racist and more of a left-winger. But I think if he advertised it differently (and hired a nice editor), it could have made a greater impact. Now I think only extreme racist nationalist will read the book, because of what he has done. The Revolutions are made by small groups of intellectuals, not by a lot of stupid racist teens. If he just published it, more normal people would read it and therefore it would get to a more wider audience.

But even through I am not racist, and most of you are not either, I still think no-one wants to be the colorless "gray" race. Every culture has unique history, language, traditions, etc., and we should try to preserve them.

CNN news first reported Anders as being insane and then in another article said he was not "insane" or mad, but a psychopathy. I think this is complete bullsh!t. Psychopaths first kill people and then make up stories just for the fun of it. He is clearly worried for Europeans, worried enough to kill 80 people and go to jail for 20 years (which is max time in Norway). I think he is just paranoid.

I think the main problem everywhere is religion, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, are all violent (remember Crusades?). They are the ways for Kings and Queens to control there people. If there was no Religions there would be no Muslim extremists.

Also CNN now reports that now people will know that there is not only Muslim terrorists but also White once too. I also think this is B.S. because 99% of terrorists are Muslims. So if I say "All Terrorists are Muslims", I will only be wrong 1% of the time :D. Plus Muslims want to spread Islam everywhere and Anders only wanted to protect his own race (by killiong 70 people?). I think what he has done is unacceptable but I can understand it to some degree.

What do you think?

Votes + Comments
Short, effective and nothing but true. +1 to you my friend.
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"You cant deny the fact that there is more blacks and hispanic people in jails than white. Is that because hispanics/blacks are by nature stupider then white people? No! It is because most of the immigrants come from poor countries like Mexico, which have a higher crime rate, and worse education systems."

Very few Blacks are immigrants (probably more White immigrants than Black) so it must be the USA school system in poor/black neighbourhoods that is worse than in rich/white areas, thus, they do not have access to everything they need in the USA so how is it their own fault?

"We want peace, and "they" want war."

Who is they? The refugees fleeing their war torn country? I doubt they want war. Immigrants from Mexico looking for a job to feed their family back home? Doesn't sound like war to me. South Asians trying to escape their oppressive gov't? doesn't sound like war to me... Eastern Europeans looking for somewhere they can create a career for themselves? Still don't see any war mongering. Gays fleeing pursecution in their home country? I can see the rainbow military uniforms now....


By your definition I doubt there is anyone that is completely 'normal':
Being Blond is not "normal" should they be force to dye their hair so nobody knows they are a freak?
Being taller than 6' is not "normal" should we make them slouch so 'normal' aren't offended (intimidated) by their height?
I don't like all the 'Christian' stuff, most people aren't Christian (its not natural, no one was Christian >2011 years ago which is more freakish than homosexuality) should we prevent all celebrations of Christianity? make it illegal to encourage anyone to be Christian? should we have a don't ask don't tell policy for Christianity?

Edited by Agilemind: n/a

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I think the main problem everywhere is religion, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, are all violent (remember Crusades?). They are the ways for Kings and Queens to control there people. If there was no Religions there would be no Muslim extremists.

Also CNN now reports that now people will know that there is not only Muslim terrorists but also White once too. I also think this is B.S. because 99% of terrorists are Muslims. So if I say "All Terrorists are Muslims", I will only be wrong 1% of the time :D. Plus Muslims want to spread Islam everywhere and Anders only wanted to protect his own race (by killiong 70 people?). I think what he has done is unacceptable but I can understand it to some degree.

What do you think?

I really wonder how you put Islam in this context!!
You say that 99% of terrorists are Muslims!! Tell me how many Muslims have you met so far, and how did you know they're terrorists?
Islam forbids genocide which many irreligious countries practice against other countries. Islam also refuses any act of violence against those who do not want to be Muslims. God tells us in the Holy Qur'an that we must "let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error.." (2:256)
Do you know, my friend, that in the Muslim countries there are millions of non-Muslims living happily? There is a diversity of religions, especially in the Arab countries, and they're living peacefully.
More clearly, if I see one of your relatives behave badly, I will be mistaken if I say that "every single" person of his/her kin (or relatives) is bad.
Moreover, unfortunately, most of the western mass media is really trying to hide so many facts about the east (and the Arab and Muslims in particular). However, evidently, it's not an all-inclusive fact.

I think what he has done is unacceptable but I can understand it to some degree

For me, I disagree with you about this too. I can't understand at all why anyone would kill except if they were defending themselves, not defending their ideas. In addition, it's illogical for a normal citizen to kill under any circumstances (except for defence).
Killing (or execution) must be decided by the law, and performed by the government.

Edited by Hani1991: n/a

Votes + Comments
I don't think it's called revival since it's not so far away.
If you revive an old post next time make it something to be worth revived for!
0

Most of these so called shooters release some extremist bit of propaganda to go along with their act of violence.

I guess it gives them a twisted way to justify what they've done. But if you look closely... most of the reasons are just plain old baloney.

'The reason I am going to shoot up a whole load of people is because 'insert___extremist___rhetoric___here.'

The reason why most these individuals do these things is because they just suck at life... Compounded with clear psychiatric problems, because NO sane individual would shoot up a load of people, this is just like a time bomb waiting to go off.

Unfortunately, with no real psychiatric support and continued rejection in an area of life they clearly suck at, these individuals begin a downward spiral into oblivion.

The sad thing is, all it may have taken, was someone to grab this guy by the scruff of his neck when he was sucking at whatever he was bad at life, shown him how to do it properly... and a few successes later he'd be a normal, happy everyday citizen.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. He researched what it would take to get enough fertilizer to make a bomb - he bought/rented (this is unclear) a farm so he could have an excuse to buy fertilizer and diesel fuel. This was over a period of 4 years. This was a well planned masacre.

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Tell me how many Muslims have you met so far.

I know about 15 Muslims, and 5 more people who's religion is Islam (but they are not Arabic). Some of them are "Americanized" but I also know several people who are huge supporters of Islam.

And how did you know they're terrorists?

This completely makes no sense. Did you ever see any birds in your life? How did you know this birds were chickens? Not all Muslims are terrorist, and Islam's Koran is no worse then the bible, but you can interpret it differently.

Islam also refuses any act of violence against those who do not want to be Muslims

Islam may refuse all acts of violence against people who do not want to be Muslims, but terrorists do not. Any religion may be interpreted differently. In 1600's Christians were burning people alive because of the practice of "witch craft", but now they may help homeless people and are usually nice.

The thing I don't like about most religions is that they are too ideological, and even through there intentions may be good, the definition on how to enforce there ideas are loose, so anyone (terrorists, Popes etc.) can make it to there advantage.

More clearly, if I see one of your relatives behave badly, I will be mistaken if I say that "every single" person of his/her kin (or relatives) is bad.

Well, not always mistakenly. If I behave badly, my parents maybe raised me "badly", because they were "bad". Or I may have bad influences from my friends or etc.. but the point is I have a potential to do bad, I do bad, and SOMEONE probably influenced me to be bad. And the terrorists may be the bad influence on good Muslim people. But this means good Muslims have to get rid of this bad influence, so other's may not base there opinions on there bad "relatives". Stereotypes are often wrong but they are also often correct.

For me, I disagree with you about this too. I can't understand at all why anyone would kill except if they were defending themselves, not defending their ideas. In addition, it's illogical for a normal citizen to kill under any circumstances (except for defence).

Wow, you are really wrong here. THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN TODAY WAS BECAUSE BY BLOOD OF OUR GRANDFATHERS! Nelson Mandela killed "innocent" people in Africa defending democracy. He gets a Nobel Peace Prize.
Defending yourself and defending your ideas are the same things.

Killing (or execution) must be decided by the law, and performed by the government.

(Nelson Mandela == Nobel Peace Prize);

In addition, it's illogical for a normal citizen to kill under any circumstances (except for defence).

What do you define logical and who you define as a normal citizen? Something illogical to you may be really logical to other people. I would not define Anders Behring Breivik as a normal citizen.

Edited by sergent: n/a

-1

Anywho, I am a genius garbage man (google dilbert) which will always win all the arguments because I am so smart, so there is no point in arguing with me :D just kidding.

I just don't like this thread and don't want it to get out of control, so admins please close it!

Edited by sergent: n/a

Votes + Comments
Seems to me that it's you who's going away with the thread.
4

Not all Muslims are terrorist, and Islam's Koran is no worse then the bible, but you can interpret it differently.

Now this is completely offensive to Muslims and Christians. I wouldn't speak about the Holy Qur'an or the Holy Bible like that.
Given the fact that you just say something is bad doesn't mean that this very thing is bad.
Besides, if you have an idea against Islam or Muslims, do NOT express it like that!
Kindness is a good virtue.

Islam may refuse all acts of violence against people who do not want to be Muslims, but terrorists do not.

Since you know that terrorists are those who act like that, why did you say first they're Muslims?
There's a nice saying used between the Muslim society, which is:
"Terrorism has no religion."
This sentence puts aside differences in the religion.

Any religion may be interpreted differently. In 1600's Christians were burning people alive because of the practice of "witch craft", but now they may help homeless people and are usually nice.

It's not only the religion that can be interpreted differently. Even the instructions of your dad, teacher, etc. can be interpreted differently. It depends on your nature and nurture. Politicians may interpret many things differently and ruin their community.

The thing I don't like about most religions is that they are too ideological, and even through there intentions may be good, the definition on how to enforce there ideas are loose, so anyone (terrorists, Popes etc.) can make it to there advantage.

So, "most" religions, not all of them are so. Then you should know that Islam is not a religion that forces people to be Muslims, but as for Muslims, Islam educates them since Islam is sent by God Who is surely the Best to teach, guide and educate.

Well, not always mistakenly. If I behave badly, my parents maybe raised me "badly", because they were "bad". Or I may have bad influences from my friends or etc.. but the point is I have a potential to do bad, I do bad, and SOMEONE probably influenced me to be bad.

That's why there's something called "devil". The Devil can put stuff in your mind with evil ideas which never existed before. Otherwise, how was the first crime on Earth committed? Criminals can "innovate" new ways of committing crimes too. So being bad does not necessarily happen because of influence- you may become bad when you decide to, even if none of your relatives or friends is bad.

And the terrorists may be the bad influence on good Muslim people. But this means good Muslims have to get rid of this bad influence, so other's may not base there opinions on there bad "relatives".

The influence of terrorists, not of Muslims, over the whole society, not only over the Muslims in particular.
When they appear on TV, why do the terrorists declare immediately they're Muslims (mostly)? Don't you think there's something behind the scene? Why did this phenomenon start to appear since 11/9? It's a long long story, too long to discuss here. Just think fairly about it.

Wow, you are really wrong here. THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN TODAY WAS BECAUSE BY BLOOD OF OUR GRANDFATHERS! Nelson Mandela killed "innocent" people in Africa defending democracy. He gets a Nobel Peace Prize.
Defending yourself and defending your ideas are the same things.
(Nelson Mandela == Nobel Peace Prize);

They might be "YOUR GRANDFATHERS", as YOU ARE stating, but not Muslims' ancestors or grandfathers because as you might know, Muslims grandfathers were of very impressive manners because of the education of Islam.
Nobel Peace Prize is nonsense- not all the people in the world consider it to be their guide to know whether someone is peaceful or not because it's been already given to people who really do NOT deserve it.

What do you define logical and who you define as a normal citizen? Something illogical to you may be really logical to other people. I would not define Anders Behring Breivik as a normal citizen.

Simply:
logical = reasonable.
Illogical = unreasonable.
Normal citizen is one who is a CITIZEN, no more, nor less. A citizen has to know his/her limits.

Anywho, I am a genius garbage man (google dilbert) which will always win all the arguments because I am so smart, so there is no point in arguing with me :D just kidding.

Doesn't matter. I'm not discussing you to "win" against you. I'm just aiming to clarify the truth. Since you're kidding, then just forget about it.

I just don't like this thread and don't want it to get out of control, so admins please close it!

So do I.. I don't like it.

Edited by Hani1991: n/a

Votes + Comments
"Terrorism has no religion."
Thanks for clarification and I apologize instead of this guy that he talks this way about Islam and Christianity and their holy books. I and many Christians respect Muslims.
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Now this is completely offensive to Muslims and Christians. I wouldn't speak about the Holy Qur'an or the Holy Bible like that.
Given the fact that you just say something is bad doesn't mean that this very thing is bad.

Thank you Hani1991. I believe you're completely true in every word you've said.
I have many Muslim friends from different countries. They're all so kind.
Also, we should respect religions no matter what our ideologies are. I and many Christians all over the world respect Muslims. Those who don't respect Muslims know very little correct ideas and many incorrect ideas about Islam.
I apologize instead of this guy for having said such things about Islam and the Kor'an.
And I liked that quotation "Terrorism has no religion." Perfect!

Votes + Comments
Thank you. I know this thought is not everybody's. Thanks again.
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I believe this thought isn't everybody's. Sergent is only expressing himself, not everybody.
By the way, Islam also respects all the divine religions such as Christianity, and a believer can't be so if he does not believe in Christ, Moses, Noah, Abraham, and all the prophets.
Also, unlike what's being viewed on TV, in Islam, murdering any innocent person under any kind of difference (thought, ideology, religion, race, etc.) is considered to be totally a big horrible crime and guilt. And the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (PBUH), has despised such kind of dealing with people, and said that there's no difference between an Arab person and a non-Arab one, nor is there difference between the black people and white people, and that the only difference lies in godliness. Of course, nobody can tell what lies in your heart, so nobody can judge the others relying on appearance. Even if you could know what lies in others' hearts, you mustn't try to judge them because it's not of any citizen's business. :)
Thank You

Edited by Hani1991: n/a

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the only difference lies in godliness.

As an atheist, I find this comment as offensive as you find some of the comments about Islam.

Believing in any particular God does not make you a better person (this has been shown by science).

Only psychopaths (1% of population) will be 'bad' just because they want to, regardless of what religion/God/political ideology or lack there of they believe in. And even then there are other factors (4% of CEOs are psychopaths).

The rest have a variety of reasons/influences that make them be 'bad' but religion or lack there of isn't one of them. Usually low education or job prospects, environment growing up, and mental illness are mentioned as factors in criminal behaviour.

Edited by Agilemind: n/a

Votes + Comments
completely agree
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As an atheist, I find this comment as offensive as you find some of the comments about Islam.

I wonder that since you don't believe in God, then what offends you in saying that for God, there's difference between atheists and the religious?

Believing in any particular God does not make you a better person (this has been shown by science).

That's true if you believe verbally only. However, if you really believe you will try to improve yourself at any cost. This is for science. Anyway, I'm not talking here from the worldly scientific point of view. I'm talking about manners and the way we should treat people. A real believer is surely better than a disbeliever from the perspective of manners.

Only psychopaths (1% of population) will be 'bad' just because they want to, regardless of what religion/God/political ideology or lack there of they believe in. And even then there are other factors (4% of CEOs are psychopaths).

You really do not understand! If a person is mentally ill, then, of course, they cannot control their behavior. That's why Islam does not consider them as "bad" (and I wonder why you're still quoting this word.) But it's the country and the society that must take care of such people, and they have to undertake educating them and putting them in the suitable conditions.

The rest have a variety of reasons/influences that make them be 'bad' but religion or lack there of isn't one of them. Usually low education or job prospects, environment growing up, and mental illness are mentioned as factors in criminal behaviour.

When judging people, or being about to decide anything, Islam takes all the conditions into account in order to reach the best decision. After all, for me, none of the circumstances you've mentioned (except for the mentally ill) is considered to be an excuse for such behavior.
I wonder how we make excuses for MURDERING! Is it that people's lives are so cheap for us, or is it that we don't care?
Thank you.

Edited by Hani1991: n/a

0

I wonder that since you don't believe in God, then what offends you in saying that for God, there's difference between atheists and the religious?

I take offense at the assumption/implication that atheists are unable to be equally good people as religious people -> effectively saying I'm not as good a person as you simple because I don't believe one or many supernatural powerful creatures exist.


However, if you really believe you will try to improve yourself at any cost. A real believer is surely better than a disbeliever from the perspective of manners.

Why is a believer better than a disbeliever?
Is it impossible for an atheist to think they should be nice to people?
Am I unable to want to make the world a better, nicer, more pleasant place for others just because I don't have the threat of punishment for eternity?
Why do I have to be so self centered to not want to better myself just because there is no invisible man to impress?
Why wouldn't I do everything I can to be a good, polite, well mannered person if I don't believe in god?

Atheist have more reason to want to be good people, to be nice to others, to make the world a better place because there is no afterlife, there is no future happiness to make up for suffering today, this life is all there is so we have a duty to make it a good life for each and every person.

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