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He he. Just had my son with a dilemma.

"What would you rather, Italy beating England and then Wales losing to England (to deny them the Grand Slam) or England beating Italy and then losing to Wales (placings regardless)."

He couldn't answer. Neither could I. Not bitter. :)

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@LM
We don't sing that - we sing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VI7Bw5BYmg
How's that for a ####ing anthem?
I like the Marseillaise too.
Oh, and Il Canto degli Italiani.
And Flower of Scotland.
:)

Edited by diafol

Votes + Comments
Nice Anthem
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80:00 Ireland 13-13 France

France out of it after 1st half, Ireland let them back in. Magidan down - looks like a bad leg break.
Waiting for the last second on the clock to be played after they clear the broken bodies off the pitch...

...full time.

Edited by diafol

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Not a great game, the ref should retire gracefully.

Too many turnovers. I'm mean it's not that hard to hold on to the ball.

I'm heart is broken. =(

There's goes my 2nd place position.

I guess all along it would be 3rd place.

3rd Place ain't that bad

Edited by LastMitch: grammer

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I can't see Wales winning the 6N. However, if England grind out a tight victory a few points, then Wales could just about do it as the difference between the points difference of the two nations is effectively halved when they play each other. So if there's only 10 points difference between the two countries going in, Wales will need to win by 6 points. Still, very tall order.

I mean if England turnover a few times and yes that 10 point or more points differences can happen.

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Ireland 13-13 France

It's a tied.

Yes Scotland can secure 3rd place next week with a win.

I hope Italy wins tomorrow.

Edited by LastMitch: grammer

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I hope Italy wins tomorrow.

Me too, but not likely.

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Scotland will lose to France next week and Ireland will beat Italy, so that may force Scotland into 4th place.

After today, I reckon 6N final placings:

  1. England 8
  2. Wales 8
  3. Ireland 5
  4. Scotland 4
  5. France 3
  6. Italy 2
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Scotland will lose to France next week and Ireland will beat Italy, so that may force Scotland into 4th place.

The tied really put a strange position. 1 points means a big differences.

Me too, but not likely.

I hope some of the England players have butterfingers then maybe it will be a close game.

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Scotland v Wales might have been a better match if the ref hadn't caught a bad dose of penaltyitis. FFS, THIRTEEN pens! A new record for 6N match, and not one to be proud of. Sincerely hope Steve Walsh doesn't get the Wales v England match next weekend.

<goes to check>

Arsebiscuits. Official 6N site doesn't give the ref details in the fixtures.

Some interesting stats though, I am particularly fond of the one that states (since 1992) England have won 14 of the head to heads against Wales and, Wales have won 7. :)

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It was Joubert in the Scotland-Wales fiasco. Walsh did the Ireland-France.

1992 is anciant history. No bearing on next Saturday. If you want a complete history of matches against the two nations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_England_and_Wales

England 56 wins
Wales 55 wins

Wales were shite for about 20 years from '93.

I envisage a very nervous 1st half, with little in it. England seem to have learned to keep their heads down when in a commanding position, so that's a plus for them. If Scotland hadn't imploded against England and lost by 20 points, the game could even be a contast for the 6N. :(

Edited by diafol

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Fecking refs, all look the same to me :) Walsh was pretty dire I thought, especially in the scrum. But Joubert was just tedious - maybe a yellow or two might have sorted things out.

As for the Wales v England match, the beauty of Rugby is that you never know how it will go on the day. Apart from the Italy match today; I think the bookies have it right with The Azzurri 250-1 to win...

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Heh. 9-3 to England at the mo. Italy have nothing to offer. England have had all that possession and have done next to nothing with it. Very disappointing from them. However, I reckon England have to cut loose soon. If they don't, I don't think they'll go into next week feeling very confident.

EDIT//

England making a right old mess of it. Although they now have a penalty. How many overlaps are they going to fluff? OK 12-3 at HT.
So Italy down to 14 men and this is the lowest score against Italy at HT in Twickenham.

Edited by diafol

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England look like they want/expect a big score and are forgetting the basics like passing down the line to get tries or not being so lateral all the time. I'm hoping they will get a good chewing out in the dressing room and the second half sees some cleaner rugby. I reckon 20 points clear by the 90...

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Well, they should be BUT... Italy have just score a try following a penalty!!!!

15-11 Orquera butchered the conversion attempt.

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If Italy had won their throw...

Now pen to Eng

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Phew HG = that was close. Roll on next week. C'mon!!!!!

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Sets it up for a cracker of a match at the Millennium. Will you be there? Wish I was going...

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Sets it up for a cracker of a match at the Millennium. Will you be there? Wish I was going...

What ? A ticket for Wales-England?? I couldn't get enough money if I sold my house! I've only ever been able to see England in Cardiff back in the 70s and 80s when my uncle was President of the WRU. :(

Wales only need to win by 8 (or is it 7 and more tries)...

I like the way you say 'only'. Winning will be difficult enough, an 8 point margin is something else again. But you're right - 8pts or 7pts + more tries.

Current 'try for' count: Eng 5, Wal 7
So realistically, it should be 7 pts. If Wales win by 7 pts, I doubt England will score 2 tries more than Wales in the final game. Well, unlikely anyway. Oh, I'm excited now. He he.

I feel that the England management really ####ed up today. They could have picked their best team and put a cricket score on Italy and put the 6N beyond doubt. Now there'll be even more pressure on them. Stupid.

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s for the Wales v England match, the beauty of Rugby is that you never know how it will go on the day. Apart from the Italy match today; I think the bookies have it right with The Azzurri 250-1 to win...

I mean the odd of holding England to 18 points and Italy losing by 7 points it's really hard to cover the spread and over & under points.

If Italy had won their throw...

18-11 Eng - Italy not bad

I really thought Italy would let England score like 30 points.

Wales have a shot to win it all.

It's a meanful game next week afterall.

Edited by LastMitch: grammer

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I totally agree the England management got it wrong by fielding the likes of Danny Care from the start and saving Ben Youngs for Wales - at least that's the way it looks. Youngs may not have turned the match around but he played a much more intelligent game of rugby, and had he been there for the first 60 things might have been a lot different. I have to admit my heart sank when I saw the starting 15...

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I have to admit my heart sank when I saw the starting 15...

I thought it rather odd too. They really shouldn't have taken Italy so lightly. As you know, you could have easily walked away with a draw if Italy had held onto the ball for a couple more phases.

Having said that, all the press has been bulling up the squad, saying how much strength in depth there is. I have to say, rarely do I agree with Jonathan Davies, but he did mention the lack of penetration by the back row and the centres. An insistance on spreading it wide too early played to the Italians' defence.

Well, with lacklustre performances from wales throughout the championship and now a little slip by England (performance-wise), I think we're in for an pretty tight first half. Nobody daring to make a mistake.

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I have to admit my heart sank when I saw the starting 15...

I thought it rather odd too. They really shouldn't have taken Italy so lightly. As you know, you could have easily walked away with a draw if Italy had held onto the ball for a couple more phases.

I don't think I ever read a comment like what you both said.

You both regret of what happend in the Italy and England game.

I mean next week is big game!

I saw this movie a few years back which I like it's called Green Street

I hope the celebrations is not bad as the movie shown in it.

It's really a nice trophy ... not sure which team (England or Wales) will win it.

Aye, I only wish I can hold this trophy:

46b2bdc735682c24855dbe753b9cabec

Edited by LastMitch: grammer

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You both regret of what happend in the Italy and England game

Yep, because despite our natural antipathy courtesy of nationality when it comes to rugby we are, at heart, both passionate about the game itself. We want to see a good game, we want the teams to get it right. What happened in the England v Italy match was that the England management thought that Italy stood no chance of winning and so it could roll out the second string. Just look at the starting 15, and you will see that those players that usually sit on the bench and are brought on at 60 minutes if the match is already pretty well won, were instead there for the first 50/60 minutes. This was, one assumes, to protect/rest the best players for the big one next weekend, to give Ebgland the best chance of a Grand Slam. So despite all the denials, the inevitable truth is that England were not really thinking about Italy but instead had their minds firmly on the Wales game. Big error, and it showed.

OK, so there were some injury problems behind the starting 15 but not many. Some of the choices were plain bizarre. Danny Care, while having flashes of brilliance, just cannot control a game like Ben Youngs does for example. There's a reason why Brad Barritt is always the bridesmaid and never the bride behind the likes of Tuilagi and Twelevetrees, he's simply not quite ready for the big time yet. I'm not convinced that Twelvetees is either, to be fair, but he's a better choice at 12 right now.

Edited by happygeek

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Uh oh, Steve Walsh is the ref for the big game :( Not good for either side methinks.

The scrum will be more of a lottery than ever now.

I agree with Clive Woodward when he said of the decision: "I do not believe referees from the Southern Hemisphere — who marshal the contact zone so differently — should be ruling on the biggest match in Europe’s biggest rugby tournament".

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I agree 100% with the comment that we have unbridled rivalry between our nations (well from the Welsh point of view anyway - small nation, big chip on the shoulder :) ), but at the end of it, we all love rugby and want to see a great spectacle. Although I'd never admit to it, watching England sling it about and carving up the opposition is a sight to behold. Let's hope that both teams come out with a desire to win with flair on Saturday - but as I've already commented, I think it's going to be a very tight 1st half.

I do not believe referees from the Southern Hemisphere — who marshal the contact zone so differently — should be ruling on the biggest match in Europe’s biggest rugby tournament

I agree that the quality of refereeing should be high, BUT why is there so much variation in the interpretation of the laws? The IRB are in charge of the interpretation and all refs should referee accordingly. Yes, SH and NH have certain aspects of their game that differ, but essentially, we all play to the same rules. We play each other many times every year and NH refs get to ref down there too, so there's no excuse for such a difference in interpretation. It just baffles me.

The scrums are ridiculous. As a former prop, I wince when I see refs throwing free kicks and penalties at almost every scrum and then you see the 'alternate pattern' - team A gets the benfit of the doubt, then team B, then team A, etc. Unless one team is totally dominant, this just excuses refs from having to pay attention to who's to blame.

Refs do not understand front row play and probably never will. There are many things one can do to collapse or disrupt a scrum and make it look like the other guy ####ed up. These are what we call the 'dark arts'. Current favourites of refs is to say 'incorrect binding', 'not pushing straight', 'shoulders below the hips'. These are the only things that seem to be in their vocab. IMO, they almost always get it wrong.

If refs refused to accept 'the hit' or the 'nudge', then I would imagine we'd get 90% scrum completion. But, as it is, we get collapsed scrum after collapsed scrum and free kick after free kick for early engagement. What a load of nonsense.

International props know exactly how to scrummage from a static start - this is how they train, FFS. A early yellow card thrown in to ensure adherence to the rules should help too. But this would be an unfair turn of events if the ref allowed the hit in the first place. I'd also like to see the straight feed to give hookers the opportunity to actually hook against the head - hell of a skill in itself. You're not allowed to throw crookedly into a line-out, so why allow it for a scrum?

The IRB really need to get their act together.

Sorry, got a rant on. Poncey former backs wearing yellow jerseys and deliberating over front row play (and ploy), winds me up something stupid. And as for commentators, at least they have the good grace to admit to the fact that they haven't got a clue as to what's going on. Unless you're Brian Moore, that is - who does know. I love his commentary, hope he's doing it on Saturday. I'll be glued to S4C though, unless I go to Cardiff to watch it in a pub.

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Yep, becuase despite our natural antipathy courtesy of nationality when it comes to rugby we are, at heart, both passionate about the game itself. We want to see a good game, we want the teams to get it right.

-

I agree 100% with the comment that we have unbridled rivalry between our nations (well from the Welsh point of view anyway - small nation, big chip on the shoulder :) ), but at the end of it, we all love rugby and want to see a great spectacle.

You and diafol are passion about the sport. Which is good. I like rugby. I know next season either Italy or Scotland will get or win the Grand Slam.

This was, one assumes, to protect/rest the best players for the big one next weekend, to give Ebgland the best chance of a Grand Slam. So despite all the denials, the inevitable truth is that England were not really thinking about Italy but instead had their minds firmly on the Wales game. Big error, and it showed.

It's really normal to rest your best player before the Grand Slam. I seen other sports do that. I think I was surprise how aggresive Italy did play.

This is weekend it's all about the nice trophy ( I made a little bigger ):

c3521936260ea8f64b283412c213e5eb

Edited by LastMitch: grammer

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