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Hi All,

This is a rant as well as a discussion.

First, some background:

On this forum and another forum I frequent I have been seeing a lot of the "Please help, I cannot figure out my assignment" type of questions. Just today in the Software Development forum someone is giving a deadline and a cry about wasting money if he/she doesn't pass. Also, my youngest son just finished a science project with 1 of 2 other boys and the 3rd boy has been whining to allow him to get a mark too.

WTF?

Why do so many people expect to be rewarded (with grades, jobs, salaries, commissions, and etc.) and yet they do not feel like they should put in the work required? If I came to work everyday and didn't apply some sort of effort I wouldn't have a job!

A little more context for my son's scenario, the 3 boys were supposed to meet during the Christmas holidays, 3 times, to work on their project. The one who did not attend had excuses like, my dad can't drop me off and pick me up (and still refused when I offered a ride, he wasn't aloud to be driven by me) or his family was having a movie night and therefore he couldn't attend. I don't even remember the very first excuse. Either way, it all adds up to a 0 for him and my son told him that (but with nicer words). The kid begged a bit but then conceded to not being able to mooch grades for 0 effort.

This all brings me to the following conclusion; there is absolutely no accountability or honour from people anymore. I know of people that have children and when those children are bad (in my opinion) they are not given hell for being bad. They are bad in school but it's the teachers' faults according to these parents. There one son took a knife to school but it was another kid's fault, even thought that other kid was not packing weapons.

Accountability, accept it and feel good about yourself ffs!

Sorry for the rant but I'm hoping this resonates with those that want everything for nothing.

Have a great day!

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Last Post by Warrens80
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Potential freeloaders are all over the place. Nearly 50% of the US population now receives government handouts in one form or another. Food stamps/cards are a modern day soupkitchen in the USA. Great for those who are desperately down on their luck, but there is some abuse.

Luckily in commerce, where the rubber meets the road, hard work and responsibility still is needed and gets rewarded.

Edited by vegaseat

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Why do so many people expect to be rewarded...

I don't know about other places, but here in Winnipeg there was talk a few years ago about something which I believe is at the root of the problem. Some teachers felt that it was proper to give either a lower grade, or even no grade, for assignments which were not handed in on time. This is a position with which I strongly agree. In the real world you don't credit for work that you don't do. I seem to recall that the teachers were told that they were to allow work to be handed in late with no penalty. Furthermore, it is now almost unheard of for a child to repeat a grade. Everyone gets moved through the system regardless of proven ability or proficiency.

I think that there is a strong sense of entitlement being fostered in our children and I think that this hurts them in the long run.

Turn on any newscast and you see CEOs of the same companies that caused the financial crash being rewarded instead of punished. You see people with no discernible talent, people who contribute nothing to society other than providing fodder for tabloids (think Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton and any Real Housewives or Jersey Shore cast member) raking in millions.

And you ask why people expect to be rewarded for doing nothing?

Nearly 50% of the US population now receives government handouts in one form or another.

Not surprising when you consider it was government, hand-in-hand with big business, that is responsible for creating the conditions that make it necessary for the state to provide support. No amount of hard work is going to allow you to support a family when there are not enough jobs to go around and the only jobs that are available pay less than subsistence wages.

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I agree with Reverend_Jim.
For the last few years, we see the same kind of discussions with our system of education over here (Belgium).

Statement 1:
Children should not be separated in 'Technical school, higher grades (don't know the actual english translation) with courses like Greek, Latin, much math, ... ' it is demeaning, and it makes the 'kiddies' feel bad ...

well .. whether you like it or not: not all the children have the same interests, not to mention talent or will to put in the effort. yes, some schools do provide a grade that can amount to more, without the students of other schools being any less because of it. but no: no more ...

Statement 2:
Children should not get a B attest (over here, an A attest means a good pass, B means, either another direction, or do the year over, C means, you 're doing it over). It's telling children who did a lot of effort that their effort is not as good (or something like that).

Personally, had a few B's and a C, it led me to a course I was better suited for, and that was better suited for me. No more Latin voc and grammar, while it was pretty obvious that that just wasn't my thing. Do I feel less compared to those who graduated "better" schools? No. I have my degree, I have my job, and I managed to do what I wanted. What's wrong with that?
Giving kids who should be able to:
a. re-oriëntate their education
b. retake the exams
c. double the year
a pass up the next year, only means they 'll enter the next year with less knowledge they should have. They 'll be behind on everybody (that had an A) else, and it would be wrong to discriminate that. to solve this, there are two options:
1. take time in the second year to bring them up to speed, which will lead to less time for the actual lessons, being bad for those who actually had the qualifications to go to that year, since they loose time.
2. allow them next year to "pass" without having "succeeded" again.
unfortunately, nobody wants to hinder the A grade students, so ... there ya go.

Statement 3:
Children should never have to do a year over. It's bad for their self esteem to finish highschool a year (or more) after their friends did.

Well, la-di-da. For a lot of them, just a little less time XBox and a little more time studying, the problem is solved. for others: pick a study you can actually succeed in. If you have a less-then-brilliant iq, and don't have 24 hours a day to study, nobody expects you to be the next Einstein, but try and tell that to the parents. Like to work with wood ? Then follow a study that teaches you that, and drop the Latin/Greek.

I wish I could say I was joking with those three statements, but I'm not. Teachers are being more and more limited in what they can do, not only by 'rules', but by the students' lack of knowledge of the basics. each year, a ton of people who ten years would have gotten fail after fail, receive a degree, and learn to live with the "if it's almost allright, it'll be good enough" mentality. Unfortunately, sooner or later these persons also find their way into the job market (a lot of them also quite quickly out of it).

so, indeed, this causes for certain people to be without work and poor. which is of course something that needs to be countered. so, now politicians (and others) are investigating the possibility for a fixed basic income: each Belgian person of 18 or over would receive 1.500€ a month, regardless whether they work or not. Those who work will of course receive their wages on top of that (so the poor-rich difference won't really change), it just gives freeloaders a free pass, making it for certain people even less motivating to study/work.
The group that proposed to investigate this basic income, justified their ideas by two major reasons:
1. There are two villages in Africa where it seems to work (approximate population: 20-40, nice comparison to a whole country of millions)
2. They're having a referendum in Switzerland over this topic.
(Besides the fact that the Swiss' economy is far from the Belgian economy: the Swiss are going to hold a referendum (don't know if they did already). It is (was) not yet approved, nor in place, let alone long enough to show whether or not it could work. Nice justification)

long story short: unfortunately, the "someone else 'll do it for me" mentality is bred into children. (thankfully not all).
I've seen here topics with a nice title: "Question involving ... " but the actual question was nothing more but a copy-paste of their assignment. Sometimes they just add "I need this within x hours, here's my e-mail address ... "

All we can do is hope they 'll someday learn the value of try, fall, get up and try again, but it'll be dificult to get everyone to think like that, as long as people are being pampered.

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Holy Grammar Stuugie, perhaps I need to go back to school. Oh well, I guess it can happen from time to time.

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All we can do is hope they 'll someday learn the value of try, fall, get up and try again, but it'll be dificult to get everyone to think like that, as long as people are being pampered

That's another aspect of the coddling societies that I am seeing. These middle aged to old do-gooders see failure for their kids and grandchildren as "unfair". This surprises me a lot because everyone knows that we humans learn best from our failures. It's like our kiddy soccer leagues here, there are no longer winners or losers at tournaments, there are basically "thanks for playing-we're all winners" awards now.

I'm so happy that my wife and I have put some thought into parenting, we talk about what we do, whether it was right and wrong. I'm not saying we're perfect but we're consistent with our outlook for our children and so far at 16 and 13 they are good children with heads on their shoulders. Then again, I guess I am biased.

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Yep, I agree with the OP. Sadly, people will continue to take credit for minimal amounts of work while the person who did the work will not get much out of the other person.

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Now I'm just a lowly person in the food chain but I fouhgt like hell to get where I am at now...my background is one of sadness and abuse but that didn't stop me from foghting on finding my own happiness and status in life.

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