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Exactly, what is the score with Women and computers? I joined this site because of Danni! She is an inspiration to all women out there!! And she has proved that women are just as good (if not better!!) at computers than us men are! So, why are they getting such bad press? Why arn't other women going into the computer industry? I do not mean just secretarial, but ALL aspects!? Because they are dumbed down by the ignorance the men!! Women programmers are much too few and far between. And the reason for nearly all computer games being so violent? Because they are programmed by men! We need more women (like Danni) to be interested in computing! Its not JUST a mans world anymore its for everybody!! Just a note, I wonder what the ratio of men to women on this site alone is? I unfortunately bet its 1 women to 10 men!! (I hope I am wrong!!) Anyway, sorry to sound off like this (and maybe a little sexist?) Its just a thought!! Thanx for reading and replying!!

Yogi (Steve)

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What 'bad press' are women in IT getting? Unless you are referring to Patricia Dunn at HP (although not for much longer as chair, thank goodness) who deserved every ounce of criticism and her sex never came into it.

Seriously, while I agree that there should be more women in IT (and there is certainly an upward growth curve) I can't see how the media is being a negative influence here.

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I don't agree with you, are even or more qualified women get turned down for an job in IT then? I never heard of something like that.

And games are violent because there is an ask to violent games, not just because the programmers like them.

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What 'bad press' are women in IT getting? Unless you are referring to Patricia Dunn at HP (although not for much longer as chair, thank goodness) who deserved every ounce of criticism and her sex never came into it.

Seriously, while I agree that there should be more women in IT (and there is certainly an upward growth curve) I can't see how the media is being a negative influence here.

No, not the media as such, but the general public in particular. When was the last time you heard of a woman programmer? When was the last time that a woman got praise for writing a good programme? When was the last time that woman got the parise they deserved in the IT business? Women seem to always get the raw end of the stick when it comes to IT. If you look around the Internet, you may see women in IT roles, but they are not as well thought of as their male counterparts. Its still too male oriented, thats what I meant! And there is also too still to much stereotyping about "geeks!" (males who sit in their bedroom all day on thier computers and never leaving their rooms.) And, to go back to the "violent games" quote. How many girls/women have you spoke to who like killing innocent people and children, beating people up, blowing up buildings, stealing cars etc? There is too much violence in the world today as it is, and I think that women would drastically tone down the violent nature of video games, and not only that but also prduce far better results at programming than any man could cause they are definitely more logical and more forward thinking!

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No, not the media as such, but the general public in particular. When was the last time you heard of a woman programmer? When was the last time that a woman got praise for writing a good programme? When was the last time that woman got the parise they deserved in the IT business? Women seem to always get the raw end of the stick when it comes to IT. If you look around the Internet, you may see women in IT roles, but they are not as well thought of as their male counterparts. Its still too male oriented, thats what I meant! And there is also too still to much stereotyping about "geeks!" (males who sit in their bedroom all day on thier computers and never leaving their rooms.)

I thought the head manager/programmer of Firefox was female. And I don't really see people get famous in programming. Many may use PHP but not know the names of the people that programmed it, which is offcourse different from people that are listening to music, those mostly know the names of the singer.

And, to go back to the "violent games" quote. How many girls/women have you spoke to who like killing innocent people and children, beating people up, blowing up buildings, stealing cars etc? There is too much violence in the world today as it is, and I think that women would drastically tone down the violent nature of video games, and not only that but also prduce far better results at programming than any man could cause they are definitely more logical and more forward thinking!

I know some people that are female and liek to play violent games. You shouldn't be so stereotyping, there are women who love (virtual) killing an there are man that love playing the sims

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Certainly many of the geek girls I know enjoy beat em ups and shoot em ups and especially first person shooters and online clan gaming as much as the boys, if not more. They can be really vicious these geek girls you know ;)

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I think the reason there are less women in the IT field is that when it comes to higher education they don't want to be the only girl on a course. Same with engineering courses.

My group at uni had 3 girls and 25 guys. Well, 2 girls and one I think was a girl.

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>So, why are they getting such bad press?
That's news to me. All the press I've seen or participated in has been good. Do you have links to this "bad press"?

>Women programmers are much too few and far between.
Are you saying this because there's a legitimate and measurable deficiency because of the lack of women? Or are you just trying to be some sort of feminist snob?

>And the reason for nearly all computer games being so violent? Because they are programmed by men!
Absolute BS. This comment actually made me laugh out loud, which is hard to do. Programmers write what they're told to write. Most of us don't have the option of picking and choosing, and we certainly don't have a strong influence on market trends. Many games are violent because consumers like violent games and game companies pay their programmers to write games that comsumers want.

>Just a note, I wonder what the ratio of men to women on this site alone is?
Predominantly male, just like everywhere else. This shouldn't come as a surprise at all.

>Anyway, sorry to sound off like this (and maybe a little sexist?)
You sound ignorant and annoyingly opinionated without facts to back up your statements, but not sexist.

>When was the last time you heard of a woman programmer?
I work closely with one on a daily basis. :rolleyes:

>When was the last time that a woman got praise for writing a good programme?
In my experience, when female programmers have been present, they've been acknowledged as appropriate for their skill, just like the men.

>If you look around the Internet, you may see women in IT roles, but
>they are not as well thought of as their male counterparts.
Please, tell the men at my company that. They might stop asking me for help all of the time and I can actually do my own work.

>I think that women would drastically tone down the violent nature of video games
Games lacking violence are generally boring.

>also prduce far better results at programming than any man could cause
>they are definitely more logical and more forward thinking!
Results are determined by experience, not any predetermined way of thinking. Yes, some people find it easier to pick up programming, but down the road the initial differences are negated by experience. Two programmers with the same experience should produce approximately the same quality regardless of gender.

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Thanx for all the replys on this topic regarding women in computers! Did'nt reliase it would get such a response!! OK, perhaps I do not have many facts to back up my arguments, I was just going by past personal experience. so, it looks as if I was wrong and that women are breaking into the predominantely male world of IT, which is a good thing! I don't think of myself as a feminist snob (particulary as I am male,) just looking for equal oppertunities for all! You have shown me that women are now taking just as much a role as men in IT and that my ideas are draconian and old fashioned! This is good!! Teaching me the error of my ways! I can sleep tonight knowing that I was wrong in my way of thinking! Women and men are equal here and everywhere else!! Thank you!! I have seen the light!! Goodnight!!

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I can sleep tonight knowing that I was wrong in my way of thinking! Women and men are equal here and everywhere else!! Thank you!! I have seen the light!! Goodnight!!

Either that was excessive sarcasm, or you really need to switch to decaf. :rolleyes:

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I can see where you are coming from; most of the industry is men, but that is not because of the media, and it is certainly not because of discrimination. I think it's mostly because of a lack of interest on the part of most females in this society.

I know plenty of girls who love playing GTA, Counter Strike, Halo, and Time Crisis.

The first person I taught programming to was a girl.

My CSE advisor is a woman, and so is my programming class professor.

Most of the girls I know are just like me, only with a little more feministic tendency,
and even more into video games than I am :eek:

[EDIT] But I guess I'm a little late. I do wish more women were interested in the field.

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the general public in particular

I was thinking that that was an oxymoron but no, it's not an apparent contradiction, just a simple contradiction.

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I think that what you are feeling is a flaw in our society and not just the IT world. Sure there may be less women programmers but as was said earlier part is easly the peer preasure not to go into it.

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I think many women in ICT get seen as the 'receptionists who can use MS word and send an email'

The fact is that more and more women are getting into the ICT sector. I dont really think it is anything to do with discrimination, but just that most women either arent interested in it, or think that they wont be as good as the men. Of course, most of the women working with computers are very good at it :)

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Well I'm a Computer Science student, and female- there aren't many of us on the course (they must have been struggling, there are 2 international girls on my course, which makes up about 1/3 of the overall girls) but it's the same with things like Physics, Chemistry and Engineering. On the other hand, there are likely more women than men on courses such as Sociology, English Lit, Psychology and that sort of thing.

The fact is, men and women think differently, and I would imagine (though I don't know this for a fact) that men are more numerical and women more verbal. This isn't sexism, it's just a fact of life. Just like it's a fact that women commit far less crime than men. That's not sexist- simply true, and shows the differences in motivation and thinking between the two sexes which are undeniably present.

There are inevitably exceptions - but I really don't think it's discrimination. I'm a wannabe nerd and i hope I can be just as good as the guys- though I'm not sure I'll ever be up to hardcore nerd-since-the-age-of-3 standard...

I'm not put off by the fact that there are a lot of guys on my course, though I do sometimes identify with Lilah from Ctrl-Alt-Del, and I sometimes worry about correcting or helping them on anything because there is still that slight sense of not wanting to be outshone by a "girl" - perhaps there is a factor there, I don't really know. Most of the guys on my course don't seem to mind at all though, thankfully.

I suppose we'll have to see if the numbers of women in IT and Computing increase as time goes on or not, it might be interesting to see.

Sparky

ps- sorry this was so long! (see...verbal...;) )

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Well Said Sparky!

The fact is, men and women think differently, and I would imagine (though I don't know this for a fact) that men are more numerical and women more verbal. This isn't sexism, it's just a fact of life.

That sure is a fact...and is the very reason why the Writing section was added to the SAT. ;)

*curses women for making the SAT harder to ace for me* :mrgreen:

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Exactly, what is the score with Women and computers? I joined this site because of Danni! She is an inspiration to all women out there!! And she has proved that women are just as good (if not better!!) at computers than us men are! So, why are they getting such bad press? Why arn't other women going into the computer industry? I do not mean just secretarial, but ALL aspects!? Because they are dumbed down by the ignorance the men!! Women programmers are much too few and far between. And the reason for nearly all computer games being so violent? Because they are programmed by men! We need more women (like Danni) to be interested in computing! Its not JUST a mans world anymore its for everybody!! Just a note, I wonder what the ratio of men to women on this site alone is? I unfortunately bet its 1 women to 10 men!! (I hope I am wrong!!) Anyway, sorry to sound off like this (and maybe a little sexist?) Its just a thought!! Thanx for reading and replying!!

Yogi (Steve)

tis true, never have i met a female ict tutor of lecturer, i think this can be put in the same class as male nurses, but i think it is starting
to change, for instance the last month or so i've seen many a hgv driven by female drivers, i think industry is starting to relise that the traditional `mens` jobs can be done just as well if not better by women,

http://www.womenintechnology.co.uk/content_static/news_detail.asp?session_id={BE68508B-6210-42B4-ADED-AE18ECBEA93D}&id=15016666

darren :cool:

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I work with two women -- one is my supervisor and the other does the same thing as I do. Our company has several other women too, one has a Ph.D. of some sort.

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