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i agree. the whole of my AS level computing class is guys (and most of them are slackers - except for me of course, im teachers pet)

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WOW....thanks for the warm welcome. Some of you sound pathetically ignorant and immature. I asked a simple question, contributing to the spirit of the board in getting to know people. I'm a woman who was interested in seeing how many other women, like myself are in to computers. I didn't ask for psychoanalysis or to be judged. I can care less what you think as you don't know me and you're opinion means very little...Those who have manners here thanks.......Justine

I am a free spirit, loving and caring. I have no interest in dividing anyone, that's YOUR personal mental problem and your scewed opinion. If a strong woman frightens/challenges you, then take your meds and go to bed. I'm sure there are many fun guys here and won't let a few ignorant people taint the rest.....Justine

If you don't care, why does it bother you so much? :rolleyes:

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*spills the bucket of cold water on both Narue and Justine*

*Hands them both some dry towels and glowers at Chaky* :cheesy:

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Some of us were trying to encourage the women who are in the industry ... you are future role models for the girls/women/females/ladies. Being Angry or expressing yourself is one thing and its ok to do. I don't do games, heck I don't do computers well either. But I do one thing well ... moving forward and doing positive things. You are all so talented here and have many great assets. i've read the posts everybody is great. It pains me so see such friction.

You know, I came from an industry, Law Enforcement where I was the minority-asian pacific islander going in ... We were thought of as weak, undecisive, and couldn't do the job ... well I let my work do the talkin' for me and the rest is history .. If you look at alot of SWAT Teams most of the members are Asian-Pacific Islanders and women are filling the ranks also. When I was in managment I looked at Work Ethic, Fitreps, Psych Profiles, and additional experience and a sense of humor .. and then I'd take my rank insignia's off and actually work with them - male or female, any ethnicity or sexual preference.. I just wanted people who would work their best and work with the rest. Oh! There would be fights and bruised feelings occasionally ... but when duty called .. they were right there ... hey I'm the first to admit one of my rookies a 100 lb soaking wet female officer came to my aide when a bad guy broke a pool cue over me .. she kinda was on him like a pit bull and when I shook it off I jumped in took him to the ground and cuffed him .... all 275 pounds of him. The important lesson .. it was not a woman that came to my rescue ... no even a cop ... though she was ... it was a friend coming to rescue me and it was teamwork that got that beast arrested. Isn''t that great .. Friends and Teamwork

Votes + Comments
well said
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If difference between sexes is (and should) be irrelevant, then it should not be worth trouble discussing it at all, and here we are all talking about it and it is not even a topic.

That fact alone speaks volumes to me.

My point is:
This problem is within people's minds and cultures. It is a collective behavior issue, and it's been going on since forever. Only "recently" functions of the single person have changed drastically (as opposed to lifestyle 200 years ago). Today, arguably all jobs can be performed by either boy or a girl. All except giving birth, that is.
I believe that talking about such behavior problem helps (and starts) solving it, but constant "reminders" will do just the opposite.

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>Today, arguably all jobs can be performed by either boy or a girl.
Too many people try so hard to pretend that there are no differences between men and women, and that's just not true. There are physical, mental, and emotional differences that have to be accounted for. Equality is impossible. Men are better at some things by nature and women are better at some things.

I believe that opportunities should be universal, but expecting performance to be universal is the height of ignorance. This entire thread strikes me as silly, but it would take too long to enumerate all of the reasons why.

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There are physical, mental, and emotional differences that have to be accounted for. Equality is impossible. Men are better at some things by nature and women are better at some things.

There are such differences between every and each person, not just men and women.

I believe that opportunities should be universal, but expecting performance to be universal is the height of ignorance.

Agreed with opportunities, but how would you evaluate someone's work?

It is a common sense that someone will apply for a work that he or she CAN perform. I'm never gonna be a professional cook, which doesn't mean that all the guys can't cook.
Face it, this is a money-driven world. Employers care for one thing, and one thing only: PROFIT. To make a profit, employer must have employees, and employees must satisfy performance standards. Better the employee performance - bigger the profit, and employer doesn't care what gender, race, religion, whatever employee is, as long as the job is done. If that is not the standard, than THAT is the hight of ignorance.

Can't get any more universal than that.

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Agreed -- Men and Women are different in different aspects, emotionally, physically etc. but that doens't mean that women can't do a peice or work which men can.

Also performance as you say is not universal evev in the case of males, some are good at somethings some are not, its not just a thing associated only with women.

Bottom -- as far as work is concerned it has no sex barriers, be in men or women, though the quality of work may differ which is quite understood since we all are unique.

Equality is impossible

With a broken defination of equality, it sure is.

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The feminist movement in USA has done a lot of good for women's rights in this country. But women are still not 100% equal to men (other than of course biological differences). For example, there are still many jobs in the USA military that are closed to women. As for other non-military jobs, I can't think of any jobs that women can not do just as well as men. I knew one woman who was the forman of a house moving crew, and she could outwork any man in her company.

BTW: my supervisor is a woman, and darned good at it too.

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>but that doens't mean that women can't do a peice or work which men can.
Please point out where I said otherwise.

>some are good at somethings some are not, its not just a thing associated only with women.
We can narrow it down even more. People who eat a healthy breakfast have been proven to perform better than people who don't. Where do you draw the line?

>With a broken defination of equality, it sure is.
And how is my definition broken? Because you don't agree with it?

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Men are better at some things by nature and women are better at some things.

The same thing can be observed among people of the same sex.

Please point out where I said otherwise.

I didn't quote you on this stmt, so I wasn't contradicting you, just saying my mind.

We can narrow it down even more. People who eat a healthy breakfast have been proven to perform better than people who don't. Where do you draw the line?

I don't quite understand what breakfast has to do with discussion. Just wanted to say that doing something better than other is not limited to women but to all the humans as whole.

Because you don't agree with it?

I don't think the point is all about coming to a common agreement, but about expressing what does equality of sexes mean of each one of us.

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>Today, arguably all jobs can be performed by either boy or a girl.
Too many people try so hard to pretend that there are no differences between men and women, and that's just not true. There are physical, mental, and emotional differences that have to be accounted for. Equality is impossible. Men are better at some things by nature and women are better at some things.

I'm additionally annoyed as to how people try to refuse this near fact (haven't really researched too much on it, but I try to observe patterns) of life. One must consider the meaning for different sexes, which is no doubt to create dynamics, increasing productivity in several methods of survival, not just the well acknowledged reproduction.

This is no doubt what evolution intended, methinks. However, you've got culture and upbringing affecting everything. The hope, of course, is that the line will blur and the only real difference between the sexes is physicality. I'm not trying, and I don't think Narue's trying to say we're all put in different boxes depending on our gender (as a bias), but damn, you can take a "bias,"--more properly defined as a "trait," in this sense--and can place it on a lot of people you know.

To the subject of this whole IT business: Culture greatly affects a lot of girls (and guys, but that's growing smaller and smaller) who may consider all this computer stuff. But that's not what their friends are into, perhaps, or they were influenced to think something else is more interesting or fun. It is my own personal observation that women rely extensively more on peers, which is a modern-day adaptation to some evolutionary survival method of some kind.

Maybe a little repetitive, but my thoughts nonetheless. And if, say, a gender is less advantaged mathematically, artistically, physically, or emotionally, why would we have to go insult them for something they cannot affect? Do your best and you'll be appreciated. ^_^

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Man (a non-gender expression), this is sad. purple rainx asked a perfectly acceptable question, with explanation why she was interested:

Just wonedering how many other girls are here? I know traditionally the IT industry has been male dominated and probably still is. It's cool to see more women taking an interest in areas other than what we have long been stereotyped for.

Perfectly reasonable.
FACT: industry is male dominated.
FACT: the majority of members here are male.
FACT: women's roles are stereotyped, as are men's
CURIOUS: who is actually female here?
A perfectly natural question to find out who are her comrades-in-arms.

I find it interesting that a female is the first to object to the question. Don't know why, don't care why. But it's a FACT.

Yes, there are differences. Yes, there are similarities. Yes, there is inequality. All FACTs. But it's also more equal than it used to be.

Would we have gotten so hot if she had asked "who likes brussel sprouts?" I suspect that was not an interest of hers, though. ;)

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>I find it interesting that a female is the first to object to the question.
I'm a woman working in a field that's predominately male. I've categorically exceeded my peers in every professional way. You'd be surprised how many people assume I'm a boorish feminist just from that. Questions like purple rainx's promote that stereotype, and it irritates me because I have to live with the results.

I'm also regularly tempted to disrupt the world around me just for fun...:twisted:

>Would we have gotten so hot if she had asked "who likes brussel sprouts?"
I'm sure when questions about brussels sprouts have subtle and controversial connotations, they'll cause debate as well. ;)

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My thread was never about comparing genders or proclaiming that one is better than the other. To all the nice and supportive guys here, I know you understand where I am coming from. I only wanted to see if there were other women like myself who are in to technology, that's it.
Narue decided to make ignorant remarks, which by the way were not humorous by any means, trying to accuse me of "dividing people" Looks like he did just that by his ignorant actions and false accusations......Justine

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If a smart and courageous woman frightens him or anyone else here, then that is YOUR problem not mine.......Justine

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I see you carefully read the replies to your threads. I'll keep that in mind when I feel the need to compose something time consuming and just ignore you.

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Yes, I know just made a simple type o'. Anyhow, I stand firmply on how I feel and don't feel I have to justify myself to anyone. If false accusations are made then I will take a stand against the ignorant. And as far as anyone knows she may be a he, I can care less, because I know who I am and that's all that matters......*smiling*....Justine

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I am far from being a "feminist or boorish" If that's how people see you at work then you need to look at yourself. I encourage, love and support men. I have never made a comment comparing one gender dominating the other. Simply stated facts, not putting either side down. Your thinking is serious flawed...That's all I'm done with this....Justine

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I am far from being a "feminist or boorish" If that's how people see you at work then you need to look at yourself. I encourage, love and support men. I have never made a comment comparing one gender dominating the other. Simply stated facts, not putting either side down. Your thinking is serious flawed...That's all I'm done with this....Justine

Hello.

There is one thing which you are missing here -- this is a public forum where anyone is free to post his opinions unless they are racist, against a particular religion or directly hurt someone...

When you create a thread ( esp in the Geek's Louge ), you have to accept that many people will come and express their opinions of which you won't like many.

Free flowing ideas from the different parts of the world is what keeps this forum alive. I hope you catch the drift.

Thank you.

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Let's add some info to the thoughts going on here. Not just corporations but public agencies and government agencies have done something to change the work place for woman and minorities. They have changed the physical requirements and entry level requirments for jobs. They have even changed age requirements. :)

EEOC - the federal agency that investigates equal opportunity has put plenty laws on the books and just look at Organizational Policies by corporations and agencies today. There will be a lot of changes as people interpret these an take cases to the courts and public/private hearings.

The courts are essentially saying "equal rights for all persons regardless of persuasion, equal opportunity, and equal pay" and if you violate these equal fines or incarceration

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But of course I understrand that this a public forum, it's certainly not my first and only group that I belong to on the web. That is NOT the point. As I stated before many times, I am open to anyones opinion and you don't have to agree with what I say.

The issue is of respect and courtesy! If I post a topic and people turn my comments in to something that they are not, I have a problem with that. People who make false accusations about me or anything I mentioned for their own gain, is sick and revolting.

I come from a culture where you are taught to think before you speak and I believe in this fully. Keep your mouth shut if you have nothing nice to say about the other person. You can disagree, that's fine, it's how you word what you say and how it comes across.

There are the select few who don't care about anyone but themselves and only wish to antagonize others, playing childish games of provocation. The people here who engage in such behavior are pathetic and self-absorbed. It's an issue of respect period! Something I feel every "adult" should know. Oh well, such as life, there will be good people and there will be bad ones, I won't waste my energy on idiots, nor will I give them the satisfaction they seek, which is the obvious.....ATTENTION.

This topic has been dead for over six months. Start a new discussion instead.
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