RFID tags, big brother is watching?

[spikes]

Hi All,
Just hearing more stories about these radio frequency ID tags, personally i dont like the sound of them. I can see the advantage for the manufacturer and how combating theft may bring down the prices on what we buy.
But i dont want to be walking around broadcasting radio signals; I dont want to be profiled by my purchases. Do I have something to hide? Well dont we all, and anyway if we dont do we really want to be eves dropped on?

So anyway here is a place where we can post up any concerns and information we come across to keep our anonymity!

spikes

[Dani]

I'm confused. Maybe it's because I don't really read the paper, but I've never heard of RFID tags?

Hi There,
RFID tags (radio frequency ID) are the plastic tags attached to stuff you buy in shops, to stop you steeling them. the problem is that the new tags are the size of a grain of sand and so can be hiden in paper cloths and anything else. each one emits a unique number. so just imagen in the future (next two years, not 4023) your whole outfit, mobile phone, pencil, books in your bag will be answering to detectors in all the shops, then all of a sudden the e-advert changes to be something simaler to what you have on. basicly you will be profiled by what you ware and the computer can target an advert to you.

take a look at this atical, gives you some ideas

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52343,00.html

what i am saying is that this system could be used to track us and who we are, maybe. and do we realy want this

spikes

[jenniehanabusa]

Hi There,
RFID tags (radio frequency ID) are the plastic tags attached to stuff you buy in shops, to stop you steeling them. the problem is that the new tags are the size of a grain of sand and so can be hiden in paper cloths and anything else. each one emits a unique number. so just imagen in the future (next two years, not 4023) your whole outfit, mobile phone, pencil, books in your bag will be answering to detectors in all the shops, then all of a sudden the e-advert changes to be something simaler to what you have on. basicly you will be profiled by what you ware and the computer can target an advert to you.

take a look at this atical, gives you some ideas

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52343,00.html

what i am saying is that this system could be used to track us and who we are, maybe. and do we realy want this

spikes

RFID tags can make for a safer society.

One application combines tiny RFID tags with tiny skin samplers.

They are used to make DNA evidence against kidnappers, rapists, and assailants that the police can find easily.

An integrated network of RFID tag detectors could find this evidence quickly, deter crime, and rescue victims.

http://www.adaisi.com

[server_crash]

Is this something that will be implanted in the skin?

[Catweazle]

RFID tags can make for a safer society.

Balderdash!

The misuse of technology in this way cannot lead to a 'safer' society because human nature will lead it to be misused, and implemented for purposes of control rather than to assist you.

[jenniehanabusa]

Is this something that will be implanted in the skin?

No, the ISP is wore outside of the body like jewelry.

Think of a capsule of the cold medication 'CONTACT' with it's thousand tiny time pills.

Like 'CONTACT' the ISP holds many tiny grains. Each grain is a combination skin sampler and RFID tag. This combination is called a DNA sampler.

The skin sampler by taking and holding a sample of the attacker's skin creates the DNA evidence against him. The RFID tag makes the DNA sampler easy for the police to find.

Neither the ISP membrane nor the DNA samplers lodge in the body. An ISP can take on almost any form. It can be a bandaid, earring, bracelet, or other daily wear item.

In addition to protecting the innocent the ISP can control parolees. It can be made a condition of parole for parolees to constantly wear tamper evident ISP. The constant physical presents of the ISP will remind the parolee that any attacks will produce DNA evidence against him. Also, any unexplained rupture or loss of ISPs will return him to incarceration.

For more information and ISP animation see

http://www.adaisi.com

[jenniehanabusa]

Balderdash!

The misuse of technology in this way cannot lead to a 'safer' society because human nature will lead it to be misused, and implemented for purposes of control rather than to assist you.

A shielded ISP can be used to avoid any tracking before the ISP is membrane ruptured. The RFID tags in such an ISP will not be detectable until after the attack.

[Catweazle]

George Orwell, where are you? 1984 is finally here!

Edit: This was posted before I saw your comment above. doesn't change my mind though. I consider any technology of this type to be simply far too big a risk to have implemented.

Maybe it's the good old Aussie contempt for authority in me, but I don't and will never place that much faith in the people who oversee such schemes and in the Governments they answer to.

[jwenting]

RFID can indeed be abused by oppressive governments (which at last count meant all governments) and corporate entities.
But the myth that RFID tags "call home" to tell the government where you are regularly is just that, a myth.
RFID tags of the kinds which could be used for implantation in humans (or clothes and other items) are passive.
They will give off the information stored on them (usually a single number) only when activated.
The tag has no powersource, the power to transmit is derived from the signal which requests the information.
When the signal is received the chip gets power. If the signal matches a signal the tag is programmed to respond to it transmits the information stored in it until the signal dies down.

Typically the range of RFID scanners is limited to a few meters at most. Higher powered tags require independent power sources (batteries), making them impractical for longterm use (how to replace the battery regularly?), larger (and thus more cumbersome to install and carry around), and far more expensive (given the now estimated 300 pound pricetag for the UK biometrics ID card they're trying to force on every resident that's clearly not a problem for governments, they just pass on the bill to the taxpayer/victim).

The myth that RFID tags are no larger than a grain of sand and cheap enough to install in penny items like pencils and candy wrappers is also just that, a myth.
At current the tags are still about a square centimeter in size and maybe a tenth of a millimeter thick for the smallest of them.

They do come in many shapes and sizes though, some are produced in the form of a capsule that can be injected under the skin.
These are already successfully used as ID tags for pets in many countries, which looks ever more to have been effectively a fieldtest for using the same technology on humans.
At current smallscale projects to inject humans with RFID tags are underway, especially being used to identify and track customers of discos and bars. Instead of paying cash for drinks and entrance fees the customer presents his arm with injected tag after which his account with the club (which needs to be paid regularly of course) is charged automatically.

As technology advances and effective range goes up I see a capability for law enforcement to find out who's in a building or room just by driving past and pointing an RFID scanner at the structure.
This will be sold as an easy way to detect hostages inside buildings, but the real purpose of course is to track down people who are critical of the government and keep them under surveillance (with the soon to become mandatory tracking devices in vehicles which WILL call in the location of the vehicle every few minutes to the police this will make tracking individuals almost a watertight system making it impossible to evade government attention).

[server_crash]

Hmmm...I'm not sure I like the idea of this. It almost seems like another step in giving the government more and more power which is the exact opposite of what the founders of the constitution wanted.

[magusdf]

this technology won't be that different from current ways of tracking.
a majority of people already have cellophanes, credit/debit cards nic IDs and so on
the technology to track is out there and in full use already. this isn't too different.

how ever this allow for a greater technological development. things such as ATMs and other automated / mechanical interactions would become a lot easier to use.

especially moving towards an automated future

as for security / ability to hijack is always a concern with any technology.
personally i don't believe in a flawless or a 100% secure environment, technology, or system

as for the big brother
what you should be concerned about is the laws and governmental restrictions on the technology
things such as allowing the government to freely look through archives of your emails / web browsing, history of calls, credit information, gps.....
currently there is definitely abuse of this. where government or whoever gies behind the laws to access and search through this information
they just can't do much about it because the second they do its a violation and exposing that they did something they wern't supposed to

[pclfw]

RFID tags sound great until you have a look at their weak points.

Current tags, 1sqm in size are great, get a metalic plastic bag and they sit inside waiting to be activated as you walk through the detectors. Has happened here in the UK.

Future tags well think of the research that has gone into electronic counter measures and you will see the problems of trying to use these tags against a technically aware population. False numbers, you don't like the ID number your coat is sending out? change it to another. Make the 'THEM' wonder why you're wearing a blender in the rain. Signal blocking, prevent the tag receiving the querying signal or sending its answer. suddenly you're clothes are invisible. This might lead to charges of indecent exposure, but I'd like to see the witnesses argueing in court. There are so many techniques for defeating these things that I don't know where to start.

I don't thnk that RFID tags are anything to worry about just yet.

[jenniehanabusa]

...RFID tags of the kinds which could be used for implantation in humans (or clothes and other items) are passive.
They will give off the information stored on them (usually a single number) only when activated.
The tag has no powersource, the power to transmit is derived from the signal which requests the information.
When the signal is received the chip gets power. If the signal matches a signal the tag is programmed to respond to it transmits the information stored in it until the signal dies down.

Typically the range of RFID scanners is limited to a few meters at most. Higher powered tags require independent power sources (batteries), making them impractical for longterm use (how to replace the battery regularly?), larger (and thus more cumbersome to install and carry around), and far more expensive (given the now estimated 300 pound pricetag for the UK biometrics ID card they're trying to force on every resident that's clearly not a problem for governments, they just pass on the bill to the taxpayer/victim).

The myth that RFID tags are no larger than a grain of sand and cheap enough to install in penny items like pencils and candy wrappers is also just that, a myth.
At current the tags are still about a square centimeter in size and maybe a tenth of a millimeter thick for the smallest of them...

The PENI tag is a passive tag with an embedded antenna. It is only 2.2[mm] on a side and claims a range of perhaps as far as 100 meters.

http://www.discover.pitt.edu/media/pcc031006/sci1_PENITag.html

RFID DETECTOR NETWORKING

Current RFID detector systems like toll booths, inventor control, and delivery services could be networked to form such an integrated network. In the future RFID cash registers and cell phones could be integrated. PENI tag compatible systems would likely have greater range.

http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,55739,00.html

The information such a RFID network would gather is very valuable. It is unlikely that such a potentially profitable system will not be implemented.

RFID AMBER ALERT

All of the networked detectors could be instructed to alert the police if they detect the unique RFID code for the victim’s DNA samplers. Such a system could provide a fast acting and wide spread active search for the victim’s DNA samplers.

DNA DATABASES

Kidnappers, rapists, and assailants would be venerable to this network through the RFID tag in the DNA samplers. The recovered DNA would be fed into a DNA database for matching or stored as a cold case for future matching. It might be possible to identify a suspect with a ‘near hit’ on a close relative already in the DNA database.

Whether the RFID network would be used abusively or not is not affected by using it to locate DNA samplers. The RFID network might as well be used to identify violent criminals. Otherwise, it is just a wasted opportunity to prevent violent crime. Kidnappers, rapists, and assailants will go free and their victims will not be rescued.