Shooting at Virginia Tech - Page 2

[jbennet]

I blame the war on terror for erosion of rights. ASBOS too. There evil.

[Rashakil Fol]

Guns should be illegal. The End.

Who are you to tell others what they can and can't own? You think people should be arrested and fined and jailed for doing things you disagree with, without harming any other people? Gun control is violence; gun ownership is not. Your desire to impose your utopianism on the world by controlling the peaceful behaviors of others is pure selfishness.

[christina>you]

Who are you to tell others what they can and can't own? You think people should be arrested and fined and jailed for doing things you disagree with, without harming any other people? Gun control is violence; gun ownership is not. Your desire to impose your utopianism on the world by controlling the peaceful behaviors of others is pure selfishness.

Selfishness...? you do not even know the definition of being selfish.

Wow. Let me ask you this, do you think it is selfish to say that I am disgraced by the fact that there are 33 students dead from Virginia Tech, whose only desire was to get an education there? But instead, their lives were shortened by a fellow student who brought a gun on campus and bought it legally in this country? Who are YOU to say that this is not wrong? Who are YOU to say that I am wrong for believing that guns are a huge cause of violence? The death toll has increased more and more everyday because of the use of legally sold guns. If there was no ownership of guns, would this happen? SURELY NOT. You, my friend, must think before you speak again.

['Stein]

Christina, I will ask you this. If every student at VT carried a gun, would 33 of them have been gunned down?

[christina>you]

Christina, I will ask you this. If every student at VT carried a gun, would 33 of them have been gunned down?

I don't think people are reading my posts right.
I am saying that if it weren't for guns, this wouldn't have happened. And that is so clear I don't even know why I have to explain it.
I'm sorry, but no one knows what those victims went through. No one knows the things that are going on with the families of those victims. They were innocent. They had no reason to be killed. That is the reason why I said what I said. Have some compassion, please! It's not always about rights... it's about innocent blood.

[joshSCH]

but.. if guns were illegal, would the same event not happen? I mean come on, just because something is illegal doesn't mean someone cannot buy it illegally. Besides, whos to say the crazy murderer wouldn't have bought knifes and stabbed people instead.

Of course this is a terrible incident, and all of America is grieving for the innocent who were murdered. But, I don't think it's fair to simply blame guns..

[christina>you]

but.. if guns were illegal, would the same event not happen? I mean come on, just because something is illegal doesn't mean someone cannot buy it illegally. Besides, whos to say the crazy murderer wouldn't have bought knifes and stabbed people instead.

Of course this is a terrible incident, and all of America is grieving for the innocent who were murdered. But, I don't think it's fair to simply blame guns..

True, he might have brought knives or such. But would he really have the ability to kill 33 people? I don't think so... It's much easier to kill with a gun. Hasn't anyone seen "Bowling For Columbine?" -That would pretty much explain it.

[Duki]

What about our constitutional rights as Americans? If we start eroding our rights, some day we'll end up like the British :D.. then our fate will be no different from that in 1984. If guns were illegal, the killer could have still bought one off the black market.. or used one of millions of other lethal weapons...

I'm pretty sure our forefathers didn't intend to shoot a deer with a fully automatic machine gun... or a hand gun even. The major influence for allowing guns was for hunting purposes... i seriously doubt anyone expected a hand gun in every american home.

And yeah sure they could buy guns or whatever off the black market... that's like saying oh well lets make heroin and cocain legal because people can get it anyways!! yeah!!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Look at #4 where guns are legal.
Look at #20 ... jbennet? This seem accurate?

Like christina said, if anyone has watched bowling for columbine it explains gun control so much more than we can.

How are you people going to sit there and say guns are not the problem... how can you really think the death toll wouldn't drop dramatically if hand guns and automatic rifles were outlawed?! I say keep the hunting rifles and do away with everything else... You can't stop the problem, but you can support the solution.

[joshSCH]

I'm pretty sure our forefathers didn't intend to shoot a deer with a fully automatic machine gun... or a hand gun even. The major influence for allowing guns was for hunting purposes... i seriously doubt anyone expected a hand gun in every american home.

And yeah sure they could buy guns or whatever off the black market... that's like saying oh well lets make heroin and cocain legal because people can get it anyways!! yeah!!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Look at #4 where guns are legal.
Look at #20 ... jbennet? This seem accurate?

Like christina said, if anyone has watched bowling for columbine it explains gun control so much more than we can.

How are you people going to sit there and say guns are not the problem... how can you really think the death toll wouldn't drop dramatically if hand guns and automatic rifles were outlawed?! I say keep the hunting rifles and do away with everything else... You can't stop the problem, but you can support the solution.

Well ok, I see your point... But I still don't see congress abolishing the 2nd amendment anytime soon.. Or even strenthing gun control laws.
I live in Texas, and although most Texans are thought of as country and people living on a ranch with shotguns lol.. I have never even held a gun in my life. And I don't think many people do abuse the gun control laws.. only a few people here and there.

Oh and on another note, Texas legislation is debating whether to allow residents to shoot someone if the person walks on the resident's property uninvited! Big Red Texas always seems to be going in the opposite direction of the rest of the states.

[John A]

This debate reminds me of the silly "gun registry" up here in Canada. You're supposed to register every gun that you own, and if it's not registered, it's illegal.

Great. And how is that supposed to stop the shooter? A few months ago there was a similar incident to this in Canada, a guy went into a school with a semi-automatic gun and started firing at everyone. The gun was registered.

Likewise I don't think that making guns illegal would do much good. Some types are not allowed here, such as the handgun, because it's so easy to conceal. I agree with that.

>that's like saying oh well lets make heroin and cocain legal because people can get it anyways!! yeah!!
Actually that's what the mayor of my city did. No seriously, he gave money to street people so they could buy drugs. I don't agree with it, but he really did do it.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to ban some more-dangerous weapons, but making guns illegal altogether would be just silly.

[joshSCH]

I don't know the exact gun control laws here in America, but I think you also have to register for certain types of guns. Also, I think the really deadly guns are illegal to citizens (unless you are a veteran in the armed forces.)

But of course, people don't always abide by these laws..

[christina>you]

What is it that makes owning a gun so important these days? I don't understand that concept!

[joshSCH]

you got me.. for protection?

[christina>you]

See, that's what I figure. Of course people want to be protected. But there would be no need for it if we felt safe, right? If killings such as this didn't happen.

And I know that people like to have guns to hunt... but honestly, that should be the only time people carry them.

[Rashakil Fol]

It's about power. Who has the right to own weaponry? If ordinary people are not allowed, then the state owns the people. And christina>you, I don't see you making a fuss about all the people that died in car accidents today. What gives? If cars weren't around, that wouldn't happen. Let's ban cars. Wait -- cars don't kill people, people kill people. Let's ban people.

You, by which I mean Duki now, didn't even link to the per-capita table, where the U.S. is eighth. And yes, we're high up there in gun crime because guns are legal. A more relevant statistic would be murders per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
in which case we are 24th.

Here's a graph of murders per capita in the U.S. over the years. http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/execute.jpg

Were the changes caused by changes in death penalty law? I don't think so (that website does, but meh). Were handguns invented in 1960? Um, no. Did it increase just as the baby boomer generation became adults? Hmmm.....

If you really want to reduce violence in the U.S. -- and I mean the copious amounts of violence we have on a regular basis, not these one-off events, you'd be better off eliminating the one thing that perpetuates that violence today, not tittering around with whatever happens to be the weapon of choice. If you want to reduce crime, end Prohibition. Of drugs, I mean. I.e. legalization of heroin and cocaine. And marijuana, of course. Nothing is more responsible for our surplus levels of crime (and excuses for degradation of liberty) right now than the War On Drugs.

[TheNNS]

you can't kill 30 people with a knife in the time the guy did it.
and F constitutional rights.

[christina>you]

Rashakil, I don't even know what to say to you.
It's not about all this crap you're trying to relate to. Okay? Murder does not equal a car accident. It's not always about what YOU think. These were innocent people... do you not have any emotion whatsoever? Do you not have any sympathy? Surely you are not human.

I am 100% positive that you cannot comprehend the smallest amount of pain, grief, agony, and fear those people in Virginia Tech are feeling. You don't know anything about loss... all you know is graphs, facts, and things you find on the internet. Quit being so intellectual and have some compassion!

[joshSCH]

Are you proposing that we legalize drugs?? Are you on drugs? lol.. I mean, sure it may decrease crime levels.. and the U.S. would be able to tax it, but what would happen if people could easily go to Walgreens and pick up some crack?

[joshSCH]

you can't kill 30 people with a knife in the time the guy did it.
and F constitutional rights.

Fine then, it would have taken longer.. but he could still kill 30 + people with a knife.

And what was that about constitutional rights? You must be on drugs too.. those rights are what protect us from a dystopia like 1984.

['Stein]

Rashakil brings up good points, methinks.

[christina>you]

That's the only thing he knows.
Facts.
How to make himself look right even when it's concerning the death of people.
No sympathy.
No compassion.

[joshSCH]

Well, maybe he has never experienced much pain.. how old is Rashakil?

[christina>you]

My guess is 7

[joshSCH]

lol..

[christina>you]

;)

But seriously...
This thread had much more meaning in it until he had to throw in his negative attitude. It's just sad.
I mean, sure, he's got some good points... but not everything in life is a debate.

[TheNNS]

guns cause war, pain, suffering, if you have them it's easier to kill. I think I read somewhere that guns are a cowards weapons, and it's easier to kill with them than with knifes.

[christina>you]

Yeah, it's definitely easier to kill with guns.
That guy could have maybe killed 5 people with a knife. =/

[joshSCH]

;)

But seriously...
This thread had much more meaning in it until he had to throw in his negative attitude. It's just sad.
I mean, sure, he's got some good points... but not everything in life is a debate.

I know.. he likes to change stuff up a little bit to make you seem wrong.. he kept doing that to me, but he was always wrong...

[joshSCH]

Yeah, it's definitely easier to kill with guns.
That guy could have maybe killed 5 people with a knife. =/

yea, but theres other more lethal ways.. he could have made some bombs or somethn like this kids at Columbine did.

[christina>you]

I know.. he likes to change stuff up a little bit to make you seem wrong.. he kept doing that to me, but he was always wrong...

Yeah, I know. We've been through this in the last thread.. lol.