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This is gonna get long...

Josh is really being attacked based on his knowledge of the political world. Even though I disagree with him, he definitely knows his stuff and some of the attacks made against him have no basis and are really just stupid. I'm not talking about the Civil War thing though.

In general, Dave Sinkula said a lot of things earlier in multiple posts of his.

If you would care to point to the passages you categorize as attacks, I'll be glad to address them.

Perhaps it was my first entry in this thread? Basically I thought Josh had a lot of issue quite confused. I'm not saying "Josh is dumb"; a number of the posts seemed to contradict one another, and other issues have been brought up.

True, but the funds also go to services such as building parks, research, environment safety, maintenance, police and firefighters, military, health, etc. (these are all services funded by a democratic government) All this has to be paid for..

Now where's that quote? Ah, yes.

I cannot undertake to lay my finger upon an article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.

I am of the opinion that the more local, the more better for such things.

I just always thought that in their most basic form, conservatives favored tradition and convention, and the liberals favored change..

Anarchists are against government or a central form of governing, capitalists basically favor democracy and the market economic system.. they don't like government control of resources or businesses..

Merely for further clarification:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States#_ref-11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States#Conservatism_and_change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_liberalism_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_liberalism_in_the_United_States#Some_positions_associated_with_modern_liberalism

I like this summary:

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals -- if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

I would draw my left-right line like this, with liberal in red on the left and conservative in blue on the right. [Ooh, that turned out bad.]

Attachments LeftRight.jpg 3.53 KB
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Oh, and FWIW:

Your true political self:
You are a

Social Moderate
(43% permissive)

and an...

Economic Conservative
(88% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Capitalist (88e/43s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.
loc: (-25, 143)
modscore: (53, 26)
raw: (5229)

Oh, and what are your views on abortion then..

I'll refrain from doing so in this thread which has already wandered about quite a bit.

I just think it's interesting that the Constitution only required the ratification of a certain number of states but not all. In that way they would be forcing other states to abide by the Constitution and be a part of that country without ever actually ratifying the Constitution. This only applies to the original thirteen of course.

Keep in mind they were already a nation under the Articles of Confederation.

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I'm being lazy right now. I'll look for the passage later. All I was saying was that it seemed like you were really just trying to pick apart all of Josh's arguments and make it seem like he wasn't credible at all. I do agree that he made a few contradictions. But I disagree with your political spectrum. I don't think anarchists are that far right at all. You could probably put fascism there and I wouldn't argue that. But anarchism is hard to place anywhere on the political spectrum and if they were to be placed anywhere I would place them much further left than you have. I also could make an argument against your placement of libertarianism. The libertarians believe in more social freedom than most right wing beliefs. Your spectrum would be good if it was used only as an economic spectrum. In that view it's perfect, but as the ideologies altogether, changes should be made.

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Keep in mind they were already a nation under the Articles of Confederation.

True, true, but not all of them might agree with the Constitution. The antifederalists didn't like it too much. And so some states were still forced to be a part of this nation under a new set of laws and guidelines that they didn't all have the choice to be a part of.

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I don't think anarchists are that far right at all. You could probably put fascism there and I wouldn't argue that. But anarchism is hard to place anywhere on the political spectrum and if they were to be placed anywhere I would place them much further left than you have. I also could make an argument against your placement of libertarianism. The libertarians believe in more social freedom than most right wing beliefs. Your spectrum would be good if it was used only as an economic spectrum. In that view it's perfect, but as the ideologies altogether, changes should be made.

My spectrum was more or less all government to no government. And yes, I'd have to agree that that pertains mostly to the economic and not the social.

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Well it seems that some post of yours indicate you got the intent of the US Constitution completely backwards; you are proud to be a capitalist, but you misunderstand the concept of money; and you've got conservative and liberal rather backwards; other than that, great.

[Sorta reminds me of myself about 20 years ago, except the Constitution part.]

Well doesn't that sound like a totalitarian "Liberal". Silence dissent!

I think you are confusing "liberal" with "classical liberal". A dictionary will give you one definition of "liberal", but that hardly suits today's American liberal.

Thinking that the states or the people therein derive their rights from the federal government is in direct opposition to the entire intent of the US Constitution, which is to limit to power of the federal government.

And with regard to money, I might recommend a short cheap read entitled, "What Has the Government Done With My Money".

My God. You really don't know, do you?
They're the one's going for keeping immigration policy the same, abortion the same, and going even more socialist in health care?

Yup. Completely backwards.

Somewhere back about government "making" money.

Government is a tolerated parasite living on the backs of people who work. More government is antithetical to capitalism.

I guess it isn't really that bad. I was just skimming it earlier. The Constitution's intent has been interpreted completely differently by many people. No one is sure who is right.

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I don't know guys, here is my own test on the test.

first try answering only I strongly disagree:

Your true political self:
You are a

Social Conservative
(18% permissive)

and an...

Economic Liberal
(28% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Totalitarian (28e/18s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (-119, -82)
modscore: (17, 11)
raw: (2115)

second time answering only I agree:

Your true political self:
You are a

Social Conservative
(35% permissive)

and an...

Economic Liberal
(38% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Totalitarian (38e/35s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (-57, -44)
modscore: (23, 21)

third time answering only I disagree:

Your true political self:
You are a

Social Liberal
(63% permissive)

and an...

Economic Conservative
(60% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Centrist (60e/63s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (49, 37)
modscore: (36, 38)
raw: (3335)

fouth time answering only I strongly disagree:

Your true political self:
You are a

Social Conservative
(18% permissive)

and an...

Economic Liberal
(28% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Totalitarian (28e/18s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (-119, -82)
modscore: (17, 11)
raw: (2115)

fifth time just answering questions in diagonal from left to right:

Your true political self:
You are a

Social Liberal
(65% permissive)

and an...

Economic Liberal
(30% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Democrat (30e/65s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. loc: (56, -75)
modscore: (18, 39)
raw: (2236)

And no matter what I answer I always have a "very-well developed sense of Right and Wrong".
In fact I did it one more time answering every question as bizarre as possible and still I come out being a "very-well developed" kind of guy.

I have to give it a:
0% credibility
...and
100% nonesense
...and of course
You exhibit a very well-developed condition known as "you're full of it".

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I guess it isn't really that bad. I was just skimming it earlier. The Constitution's intent has been interpreted completely differently by many people. No one is sure who is right.

Generally regarding on or about here:
http://www.daniweb.com/techtalkforums/post383072-125.html

The states were creating a federal government with a strict list of enumerated powers.

Something like that. Somewhere in The Federalist Papers, but not off the top of my head.

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Well you answered the test as truthfully as you could and got relatively consistent results until you tried to force a different answer. Why is it that you disagree with the outcome? And yeah it's true that it always tells you that you have a very well developed sense of what is right and wrong no matter what you answer for the questions.

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Your true political self:
You are a

Social Liberal
(73% permissive)

and an...

Economic Liberal
(30% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Democrat (30e/73s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness.

0

You are a

Social Conservative
(35% permissive)

and an...

Economic Conservative
(75% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Republican (75e/35s)


You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness. l


Interesting. Not even a year ago I was Libertarian.

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