"to be honest" I suppose.
joshSCH
1,062
Industrious Poster
Banned
Aia
1,977
Nearly a Posting Maven
Actually humans started smoking because they ARE of superior intelligence.
And then the smoke got to our heads.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
Smoking has been proven to cause harm to human beings. Period. It has been proven without a doubt.
Really? I thought that "[e]vidence does suggest that cigarettes substantially increase the risk of lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema."
Let me try one:[Skateboarding] has been proven to cause harm to human beings. Period. It has been proven without a doubt.I could spend all day long substituting all kinds of terms in there.
Can you produce for me a link to at least one source of scientific evidence for your claims? Most of what you've presented so far has been hearsay.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
Actually, I don't really care about that. I bring that up to point out that someone who worships science really ought to be able to quote chapter and verse of scientific data.
I tend to believe that due process is denied and just compensation is withheld in the case of many bars and restaurants.
Aia
1,977
Nearly a Posting Maven
Actually, I don't really care about that. I bring that up to point out that someone who worships science really ought to be able to quote chapter and verse of scientific data.
Oh, don't worry he will answer back to you about that. I am as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, and that can be proved.
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
Really? I thought that "[e]vidence does suggest that cigarettes substantially increase the risk of lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema."
Let me try one:[Skateboarding] has been proven to cause harm to human beings. Period. It has been proven without a doubt.I could spend all day long substituting all kinds of terms in there.Can you produce for me a link to at least one source of scientific evidence for your claims? Most of what you've presented so far has been hearsay.
Hey, hey, hey. Nothing wrong with skateboarding. Let's not get drastic here. But it's okay. I forgive you. Lol. But again if I want to skateboard it doesn't affect your health. If you smoke it affects mine (I don't mean you specifically. I think it's good that you take the effort to keep it away from people like your children).
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
80% of people in Ohio don't smoke (and yes that probably includes those who are underage but they are people to and they have rights just like we do, some underage people smoke anyway). Not that the argument has been brought up but I thought it would be a good idea for a change of pace. This new smoking law in Ohio, as well as some other states, has not lowered the number of customers in bars and restaurants. Someone who likes to drink won't quit just because they can't smoke in the bars I guess. Actually it has been shown that profits have either remained the same or have, in fact, increased. So economically it can be a good thing (not to mention it does, at least somewhat, encourage people to quit smoking).
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
Humor:
But the first modern, nationwide tobacco ban was imposed by the Nazi Party in every German university, post office, military hospital and Nazi Party office, under the auspices of Dr Karl Astel's Institute for Tobacco Hazards Research, created in 1941 under direct orders from Adolf Hitler himself.
That's the funniest part I'd encountered yet.
Ancient Dragon
5,243
Achieved Level 70
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Featured Poster
Why does a nonsmoker want to eat in a resturant that allows smoking? Only one valid reason I can think of -- a non-smoking spouse/child of a smoker, and in that case the smoker shouldn't take his/her family there either.
If you don't like the smoke then don't go there. Even when I was smoking there were some resturants I wouldn't go to because the air stank sooooo bad.
People don't have a right to go into any resturant -- that is private property not public property. Owners can bar you from their resturant if they choose to do so as long as they do not volate any laws, such as "No Shirt No Shoes No Service" signs I've seen.
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
Humor:That's the funniest part I'd encountered yet.
I thought Hitler actually encouraged his advisors/generals/whatever not to smoke.
Why does a nonsmoker want to eat in a resturant that allows smoking? Only one valid reason I can think of -- a non-smoking spouse/child of a smoker, and in that case the smoker shouldn't take his/her family there either.
If you don't like the smoke then don't go there. Even when I was smoking there were some resturants I wouldn't go to because the air stank sooooo bad.
People don't have a right to go into any resturant -- that is private property not public property. Owners can bar you from their resturant if they choose to do so as long as they do not volate any laws, such as "No Shirt No Shoes No Service" signs I've seen.
But it isn't fair that I shouldn't be able to go to a public (yes it actually is public) restaurant because of circumstances that risk my health that can be prevented easily when others can comfortably do so. It's discrimination. Don't I have a right to clean air just like everyone else?
christina>you
820
Posting Sage
Featured Poster
Let's just say that it's your decision to smoke, and all the non smokers will just have to deal with it like we have been for the past couple of decades. And if the law chooses to make cigarettes illegal, then so be it.
I've come to the conclusion that... in reality, only non smokers who are exposed to second hand smoke constantly will get the effects from it. But if you go to a restaurant every other week or even every other day, you really aren't in any kind of danger. Besides, I've noticed that I very rarely see people smoking in public restaurants.
So, if the smokers want to smoke, let 'em smoke. It's their choice to take the risk of having health problems.
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
I used to see it everywhere in restaurant like crazy. Everyone lit up, and it all lingered into the nonsmoking section. And if you don't believe that it lingers then use this as an analogy. Everyone will sit in the nonsmoking section and in the smoking section we will set off a lethal gas but we should all be fine because we are in the nonsmoking section, away from any unhealthy air from the smoking section.
Duki
552
Nearly a Posting Virtuoso
I agree with tina... though you can tell when a restaurant allows smoking because the whole place smells unclean lol.
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
I still like the law. I went to Bob Evans today and it was smoke free. I didn't have to worry about my mom lighting a cigarette right in front of me making it smell really bad when I eat. My whole family is full of smokers.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
Oh, shoot. I hadn't seen that there already were replies.
80% of people in Ohio don't smoke (and yes that probably includes those who are underage but they are people to and they have rights just like we do, some underage people smoke anyway). Not that the argument has been brought up but I thought it would be a good idea for a change of pace. This new smoking law in Ohio, as well as some other states, has not lowered the number of customers in bars and restaurants. Someone who likes to drink won't quit just because they can't smoke in the bars I guess. Actually it has been shown that profits have either remained the same or have, in fact, increased. So economically it can be a good thing (not to mention it does, at least somewhat, encourage people to quit smoking).
Generally, dream on. If this was new legislation, then the novelty will pass, the media will underreport it, yada, yada, yada.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
But it isn't fair that I shouldn't be able to go to a public (yes it actually is public) restaurant
Could you point me to the government-operated restaurant you are referring to?
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
Does it matter if the media underreports it? It's still true. The media underreports many things. Their biggest influence on us is deciding which issues are important and which aren't.
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
Could you point me to the government-operated restaurant you are referring to?
Public property or private property used by the public. It is still public. If it were solely private such laws could never be passed.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
Let's just say that it's your decision to smoke, and all the non smokers will just have to deal with it like we have been for the past couple of decades. And if the law chooses to make cigarettes illegal, then so be it.
It was once my decision to drive, but then non-drivers had to inhale the fumes. Now we all just have to deal with it.
Since we got rid of cars, sure it's been tough to move about, but I think it's all for the better. Especially since all that freedom didn't really cost anyone a day off his life.
[/snore]
If you love totalitarianism, just say so.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
Does it matter if the media underreports it? It's still true. The media underreports many things. Their biggest influence on us is deciding which issues are important and which aren't.
[nasal]No bias in the media![/nasal]
Public property or private property used by the public. It is still public. If it were solely private such laws could never be passed.
Cool. You have to welcome me in your home.
christina>you
820
Posting Sage
Featured Poster
It was once my decision to drive, but then non-drivers had to inhale the fumes. Now we all just have to deal with it.
Since we got rid of cars, sure it's been tough to move about, but I think it's all for the better. Especially since all that freedom didn't really cost anyone a day off his life.
[/snore]If you love totalitarianism, just say so.
Of course I don't. I was agreeing with you.
If you choose to smoke, then that's fine. And all the non smokers will just have to deal with it.
How is this totalitarian?
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
Cars have a beneficial purpose. And if you ask me pollution from cars is a big problem and I think we should work more towards finding a solution to it. And I hate totalitarianism.
christina>you
820
Posting Sage
Featured Poster
Did you not read the rest of my post?
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
Cool. You have to welcome me in your home.
There is public property, private property used by the public and private property. If I were to welcome you into my home it still wouldn't be classified as private property used by the public.
Ancient Dragon
5,243
Achieved Level 70
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Featured Poster
But it isn't fair that I shouldn't be able to go to a public (yes it actually is public) restaurant
No, they are not public places, at least not here in the United States. They are no more public than any other store/shop/business. They only let you go into their business because they want your money. If the owners don't like you or your money they can make you leave. Wikipedia defines such places as "semi-public". The only public places are those owned by all the people such as government buildings and most (but not all) roads.
Whether its fair or not isn't an issue. If non-smokers want to go to a smoking business (whatever it is) then they are responsible for their own actions -- you know the air is unhealthy for you and choose to ignore that fact so you are responsible for your own actions. The same can be said for employees -- nobody says people have to work under those conditions.
sk8ndestroy14
294
Posting Virtuoso
But what if I WANT to enter such a restaurant WITHOUT those consequences? It is still the public that uses those places and that is why the government can make it illegal to smoke in such places. That is why they haven't made it illegal to smoke in one's own PRIVATE home.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
Of course I don't. I was agreeing with you.
If you choose to smoke, then that's fine. And all the non smokers will just have to deal with it.
How is this totalitarian?
I'm trying to help you understand the result of an online test you took? I mistook it for sarcasm given your initial response to this thread?
Ancient Dragon
5,243
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Featured Poster
But what if I WANT to enter such a restaurant WITHOUT those consequences?.
Tough luck guy -- its your problem not theirs. I want to be a multi-millionaire too but Bill Gates won't give me his money. People don't always get what they WANT. Government making laws that bann smoking doesn't make the resuturants public. There are laws about that you can and can not do in your own home while your home certainly isn't public either.
Dave Sinkula
2,398
long time no c
Team Colleague
But what if I WANT to enter such a restaurant WITHOUT those consequences?
Go to one with that restriction?
It is still the public that uses those places and that is why the government can make it illegal to smoke in such places. That is why they haven't made it illegal to smoke in one's own PRIVATE home.
Yet. That is what I fear.
That is part of the purpose of this thread.
How much freedom do you kids want to give away?
christina>you
820
Posting Sage
Featured Poster
I'm trying to help you understand the result of an online test you took?
How do you know that the online test was even accurate? Besides, I'm not really involved with politics... and frankly, I don't want to be. I base my decisions on my values and beliefs.
I mistook it for sarcasm given your initial response to this thread?
That's why I said "I've come to the conclusion that..."
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