Scratch

[Bench]

I wonder if anyone has seen this before - a programming 'language' aimed at young children. Of course, not really a programming language in the usual sense, and certainly not going to produce the next Quake game, but a great idea to introduce people to the basic ideas of programming in a way that lets them do creative and fun stuff without actually knowing how to program. A neat way (IMHO) to capture an audience who otherwise are likely to never do anything more complicated with their computer than read their emails or download something from iTunes.

http://scratch.mit.edu/

What does everyone else think?

[joshSCH]

Isn't there something kinda like that already.. Alice? I mean, it also tries to introduce the idea of programming to students..

[debasisdas]

a good attempt.

[~s.o.s~]

Maybe you would even like to read this.

[jwenting]

they used to create Logo for that purpose in the 1980s. It was a complete flop.
Then they created Visual BASIC, but project managers thought it was a serious language for business systems so that one flopped too for its intended purpose.
Next it was Ruby, which was misinterpreted by open source fanatics as being the language that would kill all commercial software development.

And you say they've tried again?

[Bench]

they used to create Logo for that purpose in the 1980s. It was a complete flop.

I would disagree with that somewhat. As a kid growing up in the 80s, I was exposed to Logo and the turtle robot with a pen at primary school, running on a BBC Microcomputer. I found it entertaining at the time - and remember enjoying the whole experience of being able to type some commands into a computer and watch the turtle roll around the paper on its own.

Of course, I don't think it was in the least bit advanced enough to teach me how to program, but it did capture my interest enough in the idea of writing programs, and maybe some of the ideas about instructions and repetition subliminally 'stuck' too.

So, if this ends up being the next 'Logo' for kids in the next few years, I don't think it'll be a terribly bad thing.

[hbk619]

turtle robot with a pen at primary school

hey, we had that at my my primary school - 90's/ :)

[Bench]

turtle robot with a pen at primary school

hey, we had that at my my primary school - 90's/ :)

Heh, how late into the 90s? Those things weren't exactly cutting edge when I was there (88-92'ish).. then again, the amount of money spent on school computers is pathetic even now, so there's probably more than a few places who still use the things. :)

[Sturm]

Whats wrong with c/c++? Anything can be taught to anyone at the right pace.

[Bench]

Whats wrong with c/c++? Anything can be taught to anyone at the right pace.

I completely agree with that sentiment, but I don't think its about teaching serious programming to kids, its more about the basic ideas (especially if its at the age where they're still learning multiplication tables).

So, rather than going in-depth, the learning-languages just give a taster of the really simple stuff, with an emphasis on making it easy, fun and creative (Since the average 8 year old generally doesn't have a very wide attention span when they're bored - so if the cute environment helps with motivation, then that's half the battle won)

[Sturm]

>I completely agree with that sentiment, but I don't think its about teaching serious programming to kids, its more about the basic ideas (especially if its at the age where they're still learning multiplication tables)

but c++ can be as easy or complicated as you want right? By using a few high level graphics libraries (allegro comes to mind) and only focusing on the very basics of c++ you can program some pretty cool games.

oh and also maybe kids should just start off with logic circuits. This would teach them logic that is fundamental to all programming languages.

[hbk619]

Heh, how late into the 90s? Those things weren't exactly cutting edge when I was there (88-92'ish).. then again, the amount of money spent on school computers is pathetic even now, so there's probably more than a few places who still use the things. :)

About 97 I think.