lets talk about it... - Page 3

[ndeniche]

@ dani:

ok... that didn't come out the way i wanted to...

i do have personal relationships with gay people... for example, my tech support guy is as much of a man as my sister is... nonetheless i am nice to him... why? because one has to be nice to people to get to move on in this world... it's better to have him as my friend than as my enemy... so let's not say i keep on looking for ways to **** up gays' lives... but i just don't tend to socialize with them... just as the same way you don't like to hang out (for example) with that girl that likes to be the showoff, or that guy that seems so stupid as a chicken... but that if you have no choice (because you two are alone, or x or y reason), you do...

[Rashakil Fol]

So being gay is like being as stupid as a chicken? So gay people are like people with attention-mongering personalities? So you just happen to declare human beings to be disgusting based on some trait they have no control over?

And you act nicely to people you find morally revolting just for personal gain? Ooh, how principled of you.

[ndeniche]

no... wait... i didn't say gays were stupid... i just said i choose not to have them so intimately close...

[hbk619]

oh, you're gay?

btw hbk. are you lesbian? after your attacking josch for not wanting anything to do with a woman who might be better than him in some ways in the "booty or brains" it turns out that it does not even make a difference to you?

No buuut, I may or may not be in love with a woman at work, and women are hot to me. But I definitly still like the men. you know what that makes me? A hormonal teenager. :)

I attacked Josh? Really? I'm sorry if I did, certainly wasn't an intention.

And i noticed i typed out COLOR in one of my other posts, sorry. Force of habit.

[christina>you]

i have never seen anything about women having sex with women in the bible but about men it is very clear.

Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

My views on homosexuality:

Religiously - it is wrong in the eyes of God and condemnable (evidence can be found in both the Old Testament and New).

Personally (don't hate me...) - it's completely unnatural. I do not believe it is genetic and unless someone can prove to me 100% that it is, I will contine to think that it is just some absurd theory that helps homosexuals sleep better at night. I believe it is solely based on decision. I've had a couple gay friends during high school and one of them actually told me that he didn't even believe that people were born that way. It's the same as someone choosing who they want to date or marry. I do believe that hormones can influence a person's decision, but that doesn't mean they were born that way. Homosexuality is simply just a chosen lifestyle and nothing else.

[joshSCH]

No buuut, I may or may not be in love with a woman at work, and women are hot to me. But I definitly still like the men. you know what that makes me? A hormonal teenager. :)

wow, well that's pretty hot..;)

lol however, I have never thought another guy was hot..

[joshSCH]

Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

My views on homosexuality:

Religiously - it is wrong in the eyes of God and condemnable (evidence can be found in both the Old Testament and New).

Personally (don't hate me...) - it's completely unnatural. I do not believe it is genetic and unless someone can prove to me 100% that it is, I will contine to think that it is just some absurd theory that helps homosexuals sleep better at night. I believe it is solely based on decision. I've had a couple gay friends during high school and one of them actually told me that he didn't even believe that people were born that way. It's the same as someone choosing who they want to date or marry. I do believe that hormones can influence a person's decision, but that doesn't mean they were born that way. Homosexuality is simply just a chosen lifestyle and nothing else.

hmm.. but the gay community says that they did not choose that lifestyle.. and I can believe them. Who would want to be gay with all the harassment they receive? No, I think homosexuality is some natural anomaly.. Something biologically goes wrong, and makes people attracted to others of the same sex. If this is true, then it would seem a bit hypocritical of your god to judge these people, no? (damn it.. everything always goes back to religion, doesn't it? ;))

I mean, all people were created in the image and likeness of god.. and if gayness is not a choice then god created it. IF god created it.. and he blatantly bashes it throughout the bible.. then the only conclusions that can be drawn are that one, God is a hypocritical, angry god or two, there is no god since the biblical and scientific evidence would be conflicting. =)

[EnderX]

Or 3) God didn't make it, but it came into being the same way the rest of mankind's physical/biological troubles did. Or do you really believe that the God of the Bible specifically created, say, cancer?

[joshSCH]

No, you are wrong. According to Christians, God is the creator. He created everything.. including disease, infestation, and pain. =)

[EnderX]

The world that God created was perfect. When mankind sinned, he broke that perfection. Our troubles since then have their source in that breaking, not in God's original creation.

[joshSCH]

No.. ask any Christian.. God is the ultimate creator. I remember discussing this with Christina.. even in the bible it says how only god could create.

[christina>you]

I mean, all people were created in the image and likeness of god.. and if gayness is not a choice then god created it. IF god created it.. and he blatantly bashes it throughout the bible.. then the only conclusions that can be drawn are that one, God is a hypocritical, angry god or two, there is no god since the biblical and scientific evidence would be conflicting. =)

... God created Adam and Eve... not Adam and Steve. Man decided to create their lifestyle, not God. That's why He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

[christina>you]

The world that God created was perfect. When mankind sinned, he broke that perfection. Our troubles since then have their source in that breaking, not in God's original creation.

No.. ask any Christian.. God is the ultimate creator. I remember discussing this with Christina.. even in the bible it says how only god could create.

Actually I agree with EnderX. If you will read Genesis, it explains it clearly. Yes God created the universe and everything within it when He first spoke it into existence... but there was no sickness or sin before Adam and Eve ate of the fruit against God. That's when sin entered into the world bringing sickness, and many other destructions with it. But anyway... back to the topic. Lol

[joshSCH]

Yes, BUT only God is the creator, right? God is the only being who has power to create.. or rather, thats what I've always been told. If not, then that would mean god has competition and thus, is not truly a god.

[christina>you]

Not necessarily.
Man can create too. Look at some stuff around you... God didn't create your computer.

[joshSCH]

Yes, humans can invent and discover.. but supposedly in a limited scope. God has the power to create life.. And I always thought Satan had no such power..

[christina>you]

Correct, Satan doesn't have the power to give or take away life. However, he does have the ability to tempt... which causes humans to sin.

[joshSCH]

BUT, who then created disease, annoying insects, and the gays? God must have.. in which case, the gays are either choosing to be gay OR a god doesn't exist.

[christina>you]

Disease is pretty much the same as sickness, right? Because that's what came into the world along with sin. Insects - yeah I'm pretty sure God made those. Gays - like I said... they chose to be homosexual. The scientists have yet to prove if it is indeed genetic or not. God created Adam and Eve, that's why only a man and woman can reproduce.

[joshSCH]

Let's say that gays don't choose to be that way by choice. Then what? God would have bashed his own creations in his holy book. Why? What would you think about god then?

[christina>you]

You're asking the right question. Why in the world would he do that? But let's look at it this way... God 'bashes' murderers, liars, cheaters, thieves, adulterers, etc. even though they are His creation also.

Murderers choose to kill, liars choose to lie, cheaters choose to cheat, adulterers choose to commit adultery... gays choose to be homosexual. God created these individuals, but they chose their lifestyle.

[hollystyles]

Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Some amusing ways this could be interpreted:

1. You're not allowed to tell the same kind of lies to a man that you would a woman. Like: "Your bottom really doesn't look fat in that outfit."

2. It's ok as long as you're standing up.

[Ancient Dragon]

Murderers choose to kill, liars choose to lie, cheaters choose to cheat, adulterers choose to commit adultery... gays choose to be homosexual. God created these individuals, but they chose their lifestyle.

You are assuming that gays choose to be gay. That is in reverse also that hets choose to be hets and therefore could just as easily choose to be gay. I don't think it is that easy or even works that way. Just as people are born with skin color people are also born with sexual orientation (which is also an assumption on my part).

[hollystyles]

gays choose to be homosexual.

Christina !

When did you sit down and fully consciously decide/choose to find Duki a bit of a smasher?

It had nothing to do with puberty, hormones and endorphins blah blah yadda, they didn't influence you at all ? Or rather you consciously *chose* to produce endorphins in your brain when you met him ?

[Sturm]

>You're asking the right question. Why in the world would he do that? But let's look at it this way... God 'bashes' murderers, liars, cheaters, thieves, adulterers, etc. even though they are His creation also.

Like Ancient Dragon said, you don't choose to be gay, its akin to being of low intelligence. Do people choose to have a low iq? No they don't.

[christina>you]

Some amusing ways this could be interpreted:

1. You're not allowed to tell the same kind of lies to a man that you would a woman. Like: "Your bottom really doesn't look fat in that outfit."

2. It's ok as long as you're standing up.

That's not at all what it means. If you didn't notice, I got that scripture from the King James Version. Maybe I should have used NIV.

You are assuming that gays choose to be gay. That is in reverse also that hets choose to be hets and therefore could just as easily choose to be gay. I don't think it is that easy or even works that way. Just as people are born with skin color people are also born with sexual orientation (which is also an assumption on my part).

Well I've made up my decision that I'm not going to believe gays are 'born that way' until it is proven. So till then, we just have different "assumptions."

Christina !

When did you sit down and fully consciously decide/choose to find Duki a bit of a smasher?

It had nothing to do with puberty, hormones and endorphins blah blah yadda, they didn't influence you at all ? Or rather you consciously *chose* to produce endorphins in your brain when you met him ?

Hmm... my hormones did not choose Caleb, I did. There were several other men before him that I found attractive, but they weren't right for me... so I chose not to be with them. Hormones don't rule my life like most, I have self-control and I use it.

[hbk619]

1. You're not allowed to tell the same kind of lies to a man that you would a woman. Like: "Your bottom really doesn't look fat in that outfit."

2. It's ok as long as you're standing up.

... God created Adam and Eve... not Adam and Steve.

haha, good to see someone else is helping out with the comedy.

Personally (don't hate me...) - it's completely unnatural. I do not believe it is genetic and unless someone can prove to me 100% that it is, I will contine to think that it is just some absurd theory that helps homosexuals sleep better at night. I believe it is solely based on decision. I've had a couple gay friends during high school and one of them actually told me that he didn't even believe that people were born that way. It's the same as someone choosing who they want to date or marry. I do believe that hormones can influence a person's decision, but that doesn't mean they were born that way. Homosexuality is simply just a chosen lifestyle and nothing else.

Hmm... my hormones did not choose Caleb, I did. There were several other men before him that I found attractive, but they weren't right for me... so I chose not to be with them. Hormones don't rule my life like most, I have self-control and I use it.

Ok, you found the other guys attractive, did you consciously (eek bad spelling) decide that? or was it more of an instinct? I know I don't chose, it's either there or it's not. You chose not to get with the other guys but you did find them attractive. In the same way a guy could find other guys attractive but chose to be with a girl?

Not sure if I'm explaining myself at all.

wow, well that's pretty hot.. ;)
lol however, I have never thought another guy was hot..

not even once? for a milliesecond? And wait till you see me from the front before you decide if it's hot or not :P ;)

[Ancient Dragon]

Well I've made up my decision that I'm not going to believe gays are 'born that way' until it is proven. So till then, we just have different "assumptions."

Can you prove you were not born hetrosexual ? No, you can't prove that either. Think of it this way then: how difficult would it be for YOU to "choose" to become a lesbian ? My guess -- practically impossible even if we ignored the Bible. So then, did you "choose" to become a hextrosexual or were you born that way? At what point in your life did you conscientiously decide that you like men rather than women. Again, you probably didn't -- you made that decision without even thinking about it.

[ndeniche]

no... she was raised believing being heterosexual was the right thing...she grew up having crushes for boys, not girls... remember Rousseau:

Man is neither inherently good nor bad when in the state of nature but is corrupted by society

[christina>you]

Ok, you found the other guys attractive, did you consciously (eek bad spelling) decide that? or was it more of an instinct? I know I don't chose, it's either there or it's not. You chose not to get with the other guys but you did find them attractive. In the same way a guy could find other guys attractive but chose to be with a girl?

Not sure if I'm explaining myself at all.

I understand your explanation... I did find the other guys attractive, but I chose not to pursue after them. And sure, men could like other men and women could like other women, but that doesn't mean you're born that way. And if they chose to be with a girl, wouldn't that make them bisexual? Wait a minute... are people born to be bisexual? No. It's just raging hormones.

Can you prove you were not born hetrosexual ? No, you can't prove that either. Think of it this way then: how difficult would it be for YOU to "choose" to become a lesbian ? My guess -- practically impossible even if we ignored the Bible. So then, did you "choose" to become a hextrosexual or were you born that way? At what point in your life did you conscientiously decide that you like men rather than women. Again, you probably didn't -- you made that decision without even thinking about it.

Okay, here is where I can prove that homosexuality is a decision... first of all - when my gay friend tells me that he chose to be gay. And second - when homosexuality is considered "abnormal" and "unnatural" because it causes the inability to reproduce in the human race. Homosexuality is a lifestyle, not based on genetics. Even science does not support the claim that homosexuality is genetic... and you can find evidence everywhere. Scientists have actually discovered that most of the reason why people are homosexual is due to environmental factors that can elicit some behavior. And if anyone has noticed, homosexuality/bisexuality has become more and more prominent... why? Because society has let it become an "okay" lifestyle.

And why in the world aren't gay couples or lesbian couples able to reproduce? Because it's unnatural. Don't you think if it was indeed natural or normal, they would have the ability to bear children?

no... she was raised believing being heterosexual was the right thing...she grew up having crushes for boys, not girls... remember Rousseau:

I was never raised that way... never has my parents told me that liking the other girls in my grade was wrong. I never even knew about gays/lesbians until my teenage years in high school. Again I say, hormones. Honestly, if people were "born that way" ... why didn't they show signs of this behavior in their early years?