Is England Vanishing?

[Dave Sinkula]

Townhall.com::Vanishing England::By Cal Thomas

What are some opinions on this? (I am most interested in opinions from the UK or Europe.)

[Salem]

I wonder if the native American's had the same discussion several hundred years ago? Once independent and free, now marginalised by overwhelming immigration.

Strange he makes no mention of the gun, drug and "rap thuggery" cultures making their way from your side of the pond over here. The body count from those goes up steadily week by week.

Oh, and another highly undesirable US import is all this mixing of religion and government.

But one thing is right though, the pressure to leave is definitely felt by a fair number of people, myself included.

[Ravenous Wolf]

i think that the article is narrow minded to the point of being ethnocentric.

if the numbers does indeed reflect what the author wants to imply then he seems to forget that all things change. england more than any other country in history had been conquered and recultered so many times that one can by right ask what exactly england is.

i have read a poem by zen master

rock and wind. they alone remains through generations.

what is stable in one generation is not guarenteed in the next. the author seems to say that tere is a direct link between change and decadence. there is not. if that was so then very few countries, including USA, would have been left standing today.

[hollystyles]

All this idealism is bollox.

The UK is just a comparitively great place. Speak english, lots of help, lots of jobs/opportunity, clement weather. When you come from a piss poor country the UK just looks great.

For those born and bread here the lens is different. Why stay when you can take the best bits of your country/culture wth you and exploit some lesser countries less fiscally stitched up economy and get a tan into the bargain.

[Ravenous Wolf]

All this idealism is bollox.

The UK is just a comparitively great place. Speak english, lots of help, lots of jobs/opportunity, clement weather. When you come from a piss poor country the UK just looks great.

For those born and bread here the lens is different. Why stay when you can take the best bits of your country/culture wth you and exploit some lesser countries less fiscally stitched up economy and get a tan into the bargain.

very true. my own country is swamped by europeans. they say that life is cheaper here(i cant see how since europe has higher per capita GDP).

it is so bad that one can no longer even buy a decent house without having to compete with over rich europeans.

perhaps we too should start publishing articles about how our culture is being replaced by european culture.

[Dave Sinkula]

Strange he makes no mention of the gun, drug and "rap thuggery" cultures making their way from your side of the pond over here. The body count from those goes up steadily week by week.

Oh, and another highly undesirable US import is all this mixing of religion and government.

Odd. I feel the former increasing in frequency in part due to the decline of the latter.

It is partially true. Perhaps Britain is just lax when it comes to immigration, at least that's how the media portrays it, how true it actually is I don't know. It is true that some places in the uk, non-whites are the majority. That was unheard of a few decades ago.

Anyway it is not just Britain with this problem hey? I'm sure parts of the "US and A" have similar issues as do some European countries.

[hbk619]

>Perhaps Britain is just lax when it comes to immigration

No prehaps. Britain IS lax, very very and when they find the illegal ones "hey yo, have a house thats legal and nice". Or "stay in this detention centre where you can demand more variety of chocolate biscuits and super-comfortable matresses and sky tv and you'll get it!"

And yup, Dagenham, Barking that area: you walk into a supermarket you'll probably see about two or three white people and at least ten times that in a variety of non-white.

Yeah well that's our government and their namby pamby pinko liberal rhetoric.

[Ene Uran]

Cal Thomas is one of the many smug neocons in the US news media, that has beaten the drums to get us into invading Iraq. I am sure he never shed one tear or even felt sad for the many Muslims that got killed in this ill exercised adventure. His bias against Muslims is clearly reflected in his "the threat of more terrorism from a growing Muslim population" statement.

Let's face it, it was the immigrants that have made the USA the great country it is! England will in the long run gain from the same experience. Bigotry is just what it is, ugly bigotry!

[EnderX]

Ever read what the Koran has to say about treating with non-muslims, Ene Uran? From what I've seen, if they're lucky, Jews and Christians (People of the Book) get forced into slave-like servitude in Muslim societies. The unlucky ones, or anyone else, are to be killed outright unless they feel themselves subdued. (That is, choose to convert to Islam.) So I think I'd be a bit biased too, the same as I would against any other ideology whose primary purpose is to either enslave or kill me. You wouldn't? Or would you simply convert?

And the immigrants that have made the USA great are those that chose to join the melting pot, not those who chose to make the melting pot join them!

[Ancient Dragon]

>>And the immigrants that have made the USA great are those that chose to join the melting pot, not those who chose to make the melting pot join them!

That's true for the most part -- but there other groups scannered around the country who choose not to fully integrate into American society, for example the Amish. But the major difference here is that Amish is a threat to no one. They pretty much stay to themselves and threaten no one outside their order. Muslem religion, however, much like Christianity, is hell bent set on conquering the whole planet and condems to Hell anyone who does not believe their religion. I don't really see a whole lot of difference between those two groups.

[Ene Uran]

Ever read what the Koran has to say about treating with non-muslims, Ene Uran? From what I've seen, if they're lucky, Jews and Christians (People of the Book) get forced into slave-like servitude in Muslim societies. The unlucky ones, or anyone else, are to be killed outright unless they feel themselves subdued. (That is, choose to convert to Islam.) So I think I'd be a bit biased too, the same as I would against any other ideology whose primary purpose is to either enslave or kill me. You wouldn't? Or would you simply convert? ---

Amazing, the Ku Klux Klan used to spread the same story about Jews and Catholics.

[Dave Sinkula]

Muslem religion, however, much like Christianity, is hell bent set on conquering the whole planet and condems to Hell anyone who does not believe their religion. I don't really see a whole lot of difference between those two groups.

Hm. I must have missed the Christian suicide bombings on the nightly news I don't watch.

[Ancient Dragon]

Hm. I must have missed the Christian suicide bombings on the nightly news I don't watch.

Oh, I guess you missed the part about Christian Crusades in the Holy Lands in 10th century, or the Witch Hunts in America in the 17th century, just to name two events in our history. Christian history is quite bloody.

[Dave Sinkula]

Very true. I don't think Christians, or Jews or many other religions, are the ones doing such things now. But remarkably, one religion does seem to stand out these days. Moral relativists will tell us to overlook this, though.

[Dave Sinkula]

Trying to bring this back to the point: how do Europeans feel about their immigration situations? Are people joining your culture, or are people imposing their culture on you?

>Are people joining your culture, or are people imposing their culture on you?

Definitely the latter...

Britain's national dish is probably a curry now...

On the flip side, does anyone bother asking the aboriginals how they feel about the influx of europeans into australia is affecting them.

Or likewise, for the native american indians in the "US and A?"

[hbk619]

Wasn't curry invented in the UK?

[bumsfeld]

The English have survived wars with the Scotts, the Danish, the Germans, the Spanish, the French, also rebellious Irish, and Dutch settlers. They have been kicked out of America, the Middle East, India, and Africa. Yet they are resilient, proud, smart and capable people! Despite Cal Thoma and his negativism, I would think they will easily survive those few hard working foreigners in their neighborhood! Where is the famous stiff upper lip!

[EnderX]

It's not a 'few' we're talking about here, it's a massive influx.

[bumsfeld]

Here are the latest stats for Europe:

Of the 474 million citizens and legal foreign residents of the EU/EEA and Switzerland, some 42 million were born outside their European country of residence. In absolute terms, Germany had by far the largest foreign-born population (10.1 million), followed by France (6.4 million), the UK (5.8 million), Spain (4.8 million), Italy (2.5 million), Switzerland (1.7 million), and the Netherlands (1.6 million).

Source: http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?id=402

So, why does Cal Thoma and Fox News single out Britain?

[hbk619]

Because people have to cross ocean to get here?

[bumsfeld]

Japan is an island just like the UK, but they have zero immigration! Makes you wonder what they do?

[Ancient Dragon]

Japan is an island just like the UK, but they have zero immigration! Makes you wonder what they do?

Apparently they don't allow immegration.

[Ancient Dragon]

Because people have to cross ocean to get here?

Not a big deal -- people swim the English Channel all the time.

[Dave Sinkula]

So, why does Cal Thoma and Fox News single out Britain?

Dunno. I can't figure out why people are singling out Cal Thomas. And I have no idea why Fox News was interjected. Perhaps preconceived notions. Maybe since Cal Thomas "has a Holiday Home In Northern Ireland" he has some greater appreciation of things in the UK than in other parts of Europe?

--

You also brought up wars, bumsfeld. But this is not like that in the respect that the "foreign invaders" are not wearing uniforms and coming at you from the outside -- they are "infiltrators" "overthrowing" "your" country from within. Same thing elsewhere. The focus here in this thread is largely western Europe, but specifically the UK.

[Lardmeister]

Is England Vanishing?

Foolish question, it would be very tough to hide!

[Dave Sinkula]

Great insight. Are you retarded?

[Ancient Dragon]

Is England Vanishing?

Its been a downhill slide for the past 200 or so years. And it will be nothing more than a 3d world country in another 100 years, assuming we haven't had a nuclear war by then and destroyed the planet.