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I agree with you, they are criminals in that sense, but they're not scum. They're just trying to make a living, and as I've mentioned before, migrating legally to the US is a pain, a long process that takes a lot of time and money, which is why most immigrants are illegal.

You won't find anywhere that I have called them scum. I also know that the process is a long one - but it is the process that we currently have in place and as such they must abide by it unless they wish to be treated as criminals.

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>You won't find anywhere that I have called them scum.

Yeah, I know. I was talking to iamthwee.

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>Prove it.

I have already told you that once you let one in, you give them incentive to sneak the rest of the family (and boy is it a big family) in. Then you end up with second generation problems etc because the scumbags want to settle down here, presumably because life is easy and convenient. Personally, I think they should be shipped back to their home countries a.s.a.p lolz. :)

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Not all of them are scum, that is a generalization. They are breaking the law and should be deported immediately.

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and the people naive enough to accept quickly realize that they cant bring their families with. why? scared that it would lower your per capita income?

if america has such an issue with migrants then they should not try and draw the skilled migrant while trying to discourage the unskilled. or is fairness an outdated concept in this modern world.

i dont fully agree with codder. the americans have built their pool of capital stock which forms the backbone of their economy. and i have already said all that i have to say about stolen land so i am not going to say it again. but cooder's point was perhaps that the rich nations of the world stole some. two hundred years ago thay colonised. now they steal human capital. if you feel that migrants have no place in your societies then dont get selective by alowing the skilled and the rich easy acces to your country. these can do a lot for their own poorer countries.

Did I ever say I was against immigration? No I didn't. I'm all for immigration of educated and intelligent people. Why shouldn't we only allow access for the skilled and rich, they benefit and contribute to our society, unlike the poor, unskilled, and uneducated. America and other western countries aren't asylums for every idiot on Earth, it's not our job to help any other country or their citizens. A countries first priority should always be to help itself.

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>I have already told you that once you let one in, you give them incentive to sneak the rest of the family (and boy is it a big family) in. Then you end up with second generation problems etc because the scumbags want to settle down here, presumably because life is easy and convenient. Personally, I think they should be shipped back to their home countries a.s.a.p lolz.

i want some actual proof other than your word. and how do you suggest we ship them all back if we can't even catch them all? any suggestions?

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@lardmeister

>> good job oppurtunities.

i know enough of economics to know that both countries benefit whenever trade takes place. so the above does not count. lets take outsourcing programming as an example. we get U.S. currency but U.S. companies get a source of cheap labour.

later we use the U.S. currency to buy U.S. games, cars and computers and then we create jobs in your country again. it is only the fools and in many cases the uneducated that cannot see that trade benefit both sides.

actually i dont want to fight with you. from the above i surmise that you are not ethnocentric. there are others that i can fight with.


@iamthee
>>illegal/legal migrants are all scumbags. no ifs or buts.
>>give birth to a second generation of scumbags.
>>what they contribute does not matter

so, and this is entirely according to your way of reasoning, the entire american population with the exception of the natives and the imported slaves are scum?

@sturm

i have a reasonably high opinion of the U.S. i am not saying anything against america as such but against people like josch, jwentig and it now seems you.

this makes it difficult for me to say anymore bad things about america than i already have said. all i can say is that you cant blame much of the world for being poor if you do whatever to steal its meagre supply of financial and human capital and then refuse to give anything back.

actually i dont believe that. i know that america gives a lot to the rest of the world. but that is probably like some twisting knife in guts of people like you is it not!

all i can say is that i think that america is not made up of people like you and josch and even iamthee. if i am wrong then only God can protect the earth. all that power in the hands of people with no compassion is a disaster waiting to happen.

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Us letting in millions of illegal immigrants is also a disaster waiting to happen. US companies getting a source of cheap labor is bad for America. It takes jobs away from Americans. Because there are no jobs left it lowers our standard of living and we suffer from it. You would not make jobs for America because once every company used cheap labor from other countries, there would be no jobs left.

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Immigrants are a scourge to society. What they contribute doesn't matter.

Only the illegal ones. If it wasn't for immegration (legal) none of us would be here -- the USA would still belong to the American Indians. And, of course, we all know the white europeans stole it from them.

@Ranevious Wolf
>>if i am wrong then only God can protect the earth. all that power in the hands of people with no compassion is a disaster waiting to happen
There is a big difference between compassion and stupidity. Compassion is trying to help poorer nations when possible. Stupidity is giving everything you have to poorer nations. I have lots of compasion for the poor people who are starving. I have none whatsoever for their government and dictators. It is they, not us in USA, who have no compassion towards their own people. If you want to blaim someone blaim your own governments, and blaim yourself for not doing more to help your own people. You are obviously welthy enough to have a computer so that you can visit DaniWeb, so why don't you sell your computer, buy some food and give it to someone that is starving. That would be the proof that YOU have more compasion then Americans.

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@ jasimp and ancient dragon

when i said disaster waiting to happen i was actually refering to things like Pax Romania, Atilla the Hun and National Socialists of Germany. I was being sarcastic. i sincerely doubt america going out to enforce to aryan ideal. but if you listen to some of your country-men then they sound ready to enforce the stars and stripes sovereignity.

ending of @ ancient dragon. still @ jasimp

>>illegal immigrants

you might be right there. if you import them at a rate which exceeds the rate at which jobs are created for them then you are right. but that is not true. anyway. i will let that go. i dont think i have a problem with illegal immigrants nor with deporting them. i would not have a problem with them if i were american but i suppose many americans would. what i have a problem is the attitude of many americans who seems to think that just because america is the richest and most powerfull country they have the right to act like aryans straight from goebels' home page(sarcasm once again.).

>>cheap labour

i suggest you take a course in economics. trade can only take place when there are comparable advantages. that is to say that both can make a product at lower opportunity costs. that means that both sides can make more of the product and then trade the extra products for what the other produce. or what do you think happens when we buy american products? consider cisco for example. practically every major company in south africa uses cisco technology. that creates jobs in america. and south africa is not the only country. the entire world uses cisco. that is but one example. lets talk about american movies, franchises like kentucky fried chicken and McDonnalds. Politici like to sound different but the simple truth is that none of these american exports can take place if america dont import. consider this while leaving the money out of it for a while, jasimp. why would your country spend its resources to make routers, cars, video games, music albums etc and then give them to people overseas in exchange for pieces of paper and metal? the only reason that i can think of is the one that every economics textbook says is valid. so that they can, at a later date, give the metal and paper back to utilise the services and the use the goods produced by the other country.

i know that some jobs are lost. and if you are in an economic sector that is facing foreign competition then it is especially easy to hate foreign trade.

in trade there will always be losers and winners in both countries. but trade work in such a way that there are more winners in both countries.

consider us. we face a shortage of programming jobs because many south african companies prefer to buy americnan made of the shelf products like M.S. Access instead of developing applications. the M.S. Access is then so twisted that it does serve their needs. here in south africa labour is cheap but human capital is expensive. this means that you can afford to have the computer user struggle an extra hour to make something work rather than hire an expensive software company to develop a custom application. this lose programming jobs to american of the shelf products.

the same goes for books. i personally dont remember the last time i even read something in my native tongue. the sheer majority of my country men prefer american books and magazines or else if that is not available then british ones. that really bodes bad for every author or wannabe author of my country.

the list can go on forever of gains and loses for both sides. but trade benefit both countries. not the one losing his job perhaps, but definitely the one now getting one.

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@ ancient dragon

i never said that you should give everything to poor nations. nor do i blame you for what is going on in poor countries. it is a pity i did not see your reply before i answer jasimp. read the top part of what i said to jasimp. or maybe i can edit it and put your name in tere as well.

many of your country men seems to think that america are the gods of earth and that the rest of the world is just there to make up the numbers. when i said compassion and god help earth i was pointing out that such people are a danger to everyone since they would believe that have the right to do as they please just because they are powerfull enough to do so.

and please read all of my post not just a part of it. i know that america is one of the most generous countries in the world. perhaps you should hate your own politicians for their foreign aid programs.

and one last thing. my country had been under the yoke of a racial segregation regime for decades and the natives have suffered for centuries. but since april 2004 we have made progress. very slow and in my opinion too slow but still progress. so the pictures you posted of starvation in africa are not actually seen in south africa. we are not starving or something like that so i am afraid that you should aim the hate your own government comment at somebody else. did i not say that people from the rest of africa run to us for illegal migration opportunities? that by itself should point to you that even though we are not as rich as you we are not exactly floundering in the dirt either.

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@ ancient dragon

many of your country men seems to think that america are the gods of earth and that the rest of the world is just there to make up the numbers. .

We were sort of pushed into that position by the rest of the world. When something bad happens we are the first ones other nations expect to do something about it. As the world's only remaining superpower should we be expected to be the world's policeman ? Let a natural disaster happen and USA is the first nation to respond -- even the United Nations (Ha Ha for that name) can't respond as quickly as we do.

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>Yep, so we don't need more streaming in under the fence

you still don't get it, no one gets it! most of the illegal immigrants aren't even criminals. they're not scum, they're hard workers looking for job opportunities which they don't have in their own countries.

Wrong. They are ALL criminals by definition because they crossed the border illegally which is a federal offense.

Most are NOT hard workers either, and certainly not educated workers. They're day labourers and farmhands.
Some may work hard, but they do so at the expense of Americans who are now on unemployment benefits (if they're lucky) because they've been replaced by an illegal alien working tax-free which is cheaper for a company wanting unskilled labour they can just kick out the door without the worker having anywhere to complain.

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Let a natural disaster happen and USA is the first nation to respond

WTF. the US screwed up new orleans bigtime

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Us letting in millions of illegal immigrants is also a disaster waiting to happen. US companies getting a source of cheap labor is bad for America. It takes jobs away from Americans. Because there are no jobs left it lowers our standard of living and we suffer from it. You would not make jobs for America because once every company used cheap labor from other countries, there would be no jobs left.

We already said illegal immigrants take all the jobs you stupid fat lazy americans won't take. It helps the economy, it helps every one and you're to naive to see it.

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We already said illegal immigrants take all the jobs you stupid fat lazy americans won't take. It helps the economy, it helps every one and you're to naive to see it.

Now you have been reduced to childish name calling, how sad. They are a burden to tax payers and illegal immigrants are illegal, criminals, need to be deported end of story. Stay in your own country, unless you come here legally, then I have no problem with you. And it does not help everyone. They supposedly boost our economy by getting apple picking jobs, and other jobs that pay next to nothing, requiring federal aid to support them and their kids, almost all them have kids. I don't care who you are, if you are breaking a law justice needs to be served.

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I live in america moron.

But I've asked this question many times. How do you suppose we deport them? Since there are millions of them, how's that gonna work?

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Even though you live in America it still name calling. First they could start by acually having a real border fence, not some little wimpy thing. Next find all the ones you can, throw them over the border.

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do we have the man power? No matter how tall and impenetrable the border wall is, they will still find a way around it.

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The holes in any wall can be plugged by fear.

Yes, razor wire and machine gun nests would make most think twice ;)

Seriously though, the complete lack of consequences currently does nothing to discourage them. They know that if they are caught, most likely they will merely be hauled back. What incentive is there to respect the law?

If someone repeatedly strolled into my house whenever he felt like it and all that I did when I discovered him was to escort him to the door and politely ask him to not do it again, do you think he's going to take my request very seriously?

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If someone repeatedly strolled into my house whenever he felt like it and all that I did when I discovered him was to escort him to the door and politely ask him to not do it again, do you think he's going to take my request very seriously?

If I say yes, do I have to keep a straight face while saying it? Because if so, I'm afraid I can't.

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When I said "The holes in any wall can be plugged by fear." I was implying summary execution.

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When I said "The holes in any wall can be plugged by fear." I was implying summary execution.

While I agree that there should be consequences, I don't think you really want to live in a society where the answer to any infraction is immediate execution. That sword may cut in ways you would not care for.

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I think immigration legally is perfectly fine, that composes most of the UK's work force, the jobs that us UK citizens can't be bothered to do. But in the UK, no one knows the levels of illegal immigration in this country, and the government is useless at finding them and deporting them out. I mean they are sapping of the government and not putting anything back in, so they are effectively gypsies. What i can't understand is that why can't our British government deport the illegal immigrants straight away? They have to wait for ages to process some documents just to deport them, so the government can't be bothered (as usual) and lets them stay, sapping benefits that come from us poor peoples taxes. I mean grr and argh , why can't we have anti illegal immigration day or something and run round forcefully removing these squatters in our country. It makes me angry so it does. :@

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