Yes i do. at A level (college age 16-18) females do signifantly better too

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3148375.stm

Ya dude, you still don't understand. Your A level is equal to our high school. In which case your evidence matches EXACTLY what I said.

You are an idiot if you believe all the races are totally equal. We have each adapted to a seperate set of circumstances.

I do agree with this, though. But, I'd say 'average' would be a better term than 'some'.

commented: Stop beating your chest. A level is not at all equal to your high school. High school is cream covered chocolate cake. +0

Sure kids rise above their parents but it's a very slow process.
Once you reach a certain point your parents' lower intellect will hold you back, as they're your primary role model while growing up.
Other kids at school don't help either. In the current school system on both sides of the Atlantic academic achievement is actually discouraged by giving overly much attention to physical achievements. Instead of math and physics kids are taught to be dieticians to "combat the obesity epidemic". Kids who are good at sports are lauded as the heroes of the classroom, kids who are good at science are ridiculed as "teachers' pets" and bullied constantly to "bring them down a notch", all with the full knowledge and tacit approval of their schools (I know, I was the target of that for over a decade, for a while deliberately scored lower than I could on tests in order to escape the worst of it).
Of course kids of all races and creeds have that problem, but if your parents were once the bullies themselves they're not going to have any sympathy for you (they may in fact side with the bullies, not wanting their kids to be smarter than themselves).

Sure kids rise above their parents but it's a very slow process.
Once you reach a certain point your parents' lower intellect will hold you back, as they're your primary role model while growing up.

Perhaps up until junior high school (7th/8th/9th)

Other kids at school don't help either. In the current school system on both sides of the Atlantic academic achievement is actually discouraged by giving overly much attention to physical achievements. Instead of math and physics kids are taught to be dieticians to "combat the obesity epidemic". Kids who are good at sports are lauded as the heroes of the classroom, kids who are good at science are ridiculed as "teachers' pets" and bullied constantly to "bring them down a notch", all with the full knowledge and tacit approval of their schools (I know, I was the target of that for over a decade, for a while deliberately scored lower than I could on tests in order to escape the worst of it).

hmm.. I don't know what school system you are talking about, but that is not true from where I am from. Maybe this was true back in the day when the football players were the most popular kids in school. But, this is not the case today. In fact, the roles have almost reversed. The most intelligent students were looked up to.. Our valedictorian was popular..

Hmm.. actually the 'athletes' and the intelligent students were segregated. Typically, the white intelligent students took the advanced placement courses while the less-intelligent athletic black students took regular classes. Sorry if this offends you, but that is just how it was at my school. So, the athletes and intelligent people never interacted much.

Of course kids of all races and creeds have that problem, but if your parents were once the bullies themselves they're not going to have any sympathy for you (they may in fact side with the bullies, not wanting their kids to be smarter than themselves).

Hopefully your parents would have matured a little bit since high school if that was the way they acted.

From Jbennet's last post, it seems to me that some people are disagreeing with the fact that there is a huge difference among races within the education system. For the record, let me just post some evidence.
[edit] View Data.pdf at the bottom of the page :)

This first bit is from the entire state of Texas. Before graduating, all students must pass the TAKS test. This test consists of a mathematics, social studies, science, and english. This is a very easy exam, yet many people do not meet the standard. The following are the results of the combined tests in the Spring of 2007:

Race                            Percent Failed          Percent met standard      percent commended 
Native American                    21%                          74%                              5%
Asian                                   -2% lol                     84%                              18%
African American                   47%                        52%                               1%
Hispanic                                41%                         57%                               2%
White                                    7%                          83%                              10%

Wow.. What is even more startling is that the percent breakdown of the population is the following:

Native American         .376%
Asian                         3.77%
African American        13.7%
Hispanic                     37.9%
White                        44.2%

A huge difference. How about a more nation-wide test.. The 2006 SAT?

Race               AVG Reading Score    AVG Math Score   AVG Writing Score   AVG Total Score
Native American         457                      494                      474                       1425
Asian                         510                      578                      512                        1600
African American        424                      429                      428                        1281
Mexican                     454                      465                      452                        1371
White                        527                      536                       519                        1582

Keep in mind that only the most intelligent students of each race actually take the SAT (for the most part).

I could go on with the SAT II, ACT, etc. But all the results seem to indicate a huge difference between the average white student and the average black student. The question we must consider is why? In the past, most people have agreed that it is due to environmental factors. But perhaps there are actually genetic factors which play a part in intelligence for each race.

BTW Jbennet, males outscored females in every subject except writing for a total average of 1532 (males) to 1506 (females).

[edit]Damn.. I spaced everything out all nice and neat in my post, but I am unsure how to make the output look the same :( I suppose I'll do a spreadsheet.. *sigh

Correction on data.pdf

BTW, scru: If you have a problem or want to discuss something, then be a man and post it in the thread.. don't be a wimp and simply give bad rep based on your opinions.

commented: Geez, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. -4
commented: you should take your own advice. -4

joshSCH...a bit of clarification...A levels are the equivalent of college work and not high school work. Good discussion though!

joshSCH...a bit of clarification...A levels are the equivalent of college work and not high school work. Good discussion though!

They are? What, are do yall brits have a better education system or something? America not the best in something?? I refuse to believe that... lol ;-)

Well anyway, the SAT results backed me up a bit.

I actually agree with you on this one Josh however i think you are focusing on the wrong areas of evidence to prove your point on this matter.

We can definatly see physical differences between our races that have developed gentically over large periods of time from things like skin colour, penis size, eye colour, hair and differnt body builds making cetain races better at difference types of sport. So it is probably very likely that similar differences have developed in the brain.

I don't think that these genetic differences are restricted to a particular race however especially as the same sort of differences can occur within a particular race.

The problem with arguing that certain races perform worse in school and therefore must gentically be dumber is that there are to many other things that can cause similar results in a controlled enviroment. Things like the way a particular race or culture raise their children or the kind of area that they grow up in can mean that they have develop motivations.

They are? What, are do yall brits have a better education system or something? America not the best in something?? I refuse to believe that... lol ;-)

Well anyway, the SAT results backed me up a bit.

American high school sucks. A lot of places around the world tend to have more difficult curricula in what we call high school, and we make up for it in what we call university.

No, I don't have facts to back this up. But I went through our system and came out rather dissatisfied.

commented: Of course you came out dissatisfied, did your school having knitting on the curriculum? I think not! +13

American high school sucks. A lot of places around the world tend to have more difficult curricula in what we call high school, and we make up for it in what we call university.

No, I don't have facts to back this up. But I went through our system and came out rather dissatisfied.

I hated high school. I hated college(australian). I found both repetitious and boring. I left college week 2 term 2 and never looked back. I now have a list of qualifications that even i can't keep a track of and a very well paying job.

I think our school system here is stupid and aimed at the dumbest person in the class rather then challenging the smartest.

joshSCH....yes, I am a product of both the American and British system of education...there are loads of difference...and as my friend Infarction pointed out..there are other countries with a much better system of education...thats why at times (not in all cases), you may find students go to the USA for college/university education and breeze through it. What I did in high school, is what I met when I went to college in the USA. So the A level is college work, and the 'O' Level is the equivalent of high school..no offense to anyone..but there are some students of the USA who have tried to complete secondary/high school ciruculum models the british system..and they haven't done so well...But to be honest with you...both education ciriculum has it's up and downs.

O level = GCSE

And the british system must be pretty good because a lot of africa and asia uses it too as do a lot of private internationsl schools

Yes..in addition....some south american/caribbean countries model there education system based on the british system...i remember those A-levels..

exactly. you know why? because employers trust it (unlike the american system)

We use the British system because we used to be British colonies, and are too lazy to bother to devise a new one. If America had colonized us instead (not that it was possible, according to history), we would be using their system today.

It's about the same as why we drive on the left side.

commented: American universities are far better than British universities -2

I thought you drive in the middle of the road, just following the line painted there to get to your destination?

I really don't think you understand the differences between the British and American system of education Josh.

To clarify this for you, in the British system, the teachers do not wear big red curly wigs, paint their faces white, have red shiny noses or wear unusually large footwear.

Additionally, the certificates we receive are not certified by McDonalds.

commented: wow you're really funny retard -2
commented: lol +22

Then why do tons of international students pay an assload just to come to college in America? Our colleges and universities are obviously some of the best in the world.

As for high school, perhaps some schools are terrible, but there are plenty of great schools too.

commented: Thank you for your previous compliment, but you have to click on the 'I approve' radio button. Remember this for next time sweetie. +13

Then why do tons of international students pay an assload just to come to college in America? Our colleges and universities are obviously some of the best in the world.

As for high school, perhaps some schools are terrible, but there are plenty of great schools too.

Good point...however, one of the reasons there are many international students there, is because with an degree from the USA or other developed countries..it's easier to get a job pretty much anywhere in the world. If someone migrates to the USA with a degree, they may not get the same recognition as would a native of the USA. Also, many of the international students are on scholarships...so they get the opurtunity to visit another country...why not? university in the USA is also quite flexible when compared to other places...night classes, weekend classes, online classes...ect. Also, because some of the international students may breeze through the university education there...why not? For example, the things that I learned in high school (British System), was covered when I was in my 2nd year of college.

> Then why do tons of international students pay an assload just to come to college in America? Our colleges and universities are obviously some of the best in the world.

Wait... do you know what sarcasm is? Or is that not taught when you get ~135 in an IQ test?

Good point...however, one of the reasons there are many international students there, is because with an degree from the USA or other developed countries..it's easier to get a job pretty much anywhere in the world. If someone migrates to the USA with a degree, they may not get the same recognition as would a native of the USA. Also, many of the international students are on scholarships...so they get the opurtunity to visit another country...why not? university in the USA is also quite flexible when compared to other places...night classes, weekend classes, online classes...ect. Also, because some of the international students may breeze through the university education there...why not? For example, the things that I learned in high school (British System), was covered when I was in my 2nd year of college.

Most international students do not get scholarships.. Also, note that there is a difference in colleges within the United States. Yeah, if you go to any community college you probably will just cover stuff from high school in the first two years. But, if you go to a REAL college then it's completely different. American Universities such as Harvard, Stanford, Cal tech, MIT, columbia, princeton, etc. are ranked as some of the best institutions in the world. The only European university that even comes close is Oxford and Cambridge.. both of which are usually ranked after the American colleges.

both of which are usually ranked after the American colleges.

Only by Americans ;)
There's also the Sorbonne in Paris, one of the finest universities in the world (for some studies).
Leiden university in the Netherlands.
And many others.

Each university has a specialisation. For each field of study there are those recognised as better than others.
If I were to go for a PhD in theoretical mathematics and I knew Russian, I'd probably choose a university in Moscow for example. Russia has the best mathematicians in the world.
For applied physics, MIT is usually recognised as being among the best.
For astronomy, there are others again.
For languages and international studies, Leiden is internationally recognised as the place to be.
For international law, Harvard and UCLA are important.
etc. etc.

Most international students do not get scholarships.. Also, note that there is a difference in colleges within the United States. Yeah, if you go to any community college you probably will just cover stuff from high school in the first two years. But, if you go to a REAL college then it's completely different. American Universities such as Harvard, Stanford, Cal tech, MIT, columbia, princeton, etc. are ranked as some of the best institutions in the world. The only European university that even comes close is Oxford and Cambridge.. both of which are usually ranked after the American colleges.

American colleges deffinately have a much higher reputation for being good and therefore enable you to be able to get a job anywhere in the world. Just because however they are more widely reconised does not make their content significantly better then other countries Universities. I personally will get more information out of a good teacher then a stupid teacher in a well known university. While a good curriculum does help, if the teacher can't transfer that information to me then it is kind of useless.

Josh, you are the dumbest pseudo-smart person I've ever met. I mean, they usually do a fair job of hiding their stupidity by at least faking reason. But reason is beyond you, isn't it?

First off, you can't prove that American Universities are better than British ones. And by prove, I mean show evidence, not just go spurting your usual arrogance.

Furthermore, numnuts, American unis are an attractive choice because:

a. America has a massive job market
b. America has LOTS of universities
c. People just plain like America. Idiot.

Now don't get me wrong, pukeface, I'm not saying you don't have great universities. Some are actually world class. But you are not the best country in the world in that light. You just have more options. Dumbo.

Can somebody help me get this stick out of my butt now?

commented: had to be said ;) +22
commented: Rofl +3

Look at this ranking of world's 500 universities Harvard (USA) is ranked #1 in the world, Univ Cambridge (UK) is #2. In the top 10, 2 are from UK and all the others are USA. France ranks a low 46, even the Netherlands is ranked (41) better than that.

Other rankings have several variations on this but all of them that I looked at showed USA universities doninated the top 100 and even the top 20.

Look at this ranking of world's 500 universities Harvard (USA) is ranked #1 in the world, Univ Cambridge (UK) is #2. In the top 10, 2 are from UK and all the others are USA. France ranks a low 46, even the Netherlands is ranked (41) better than that.

I don't suppose it was actually an American that set up that rank page.

commented: Thanks for a good laughter! +2

Maybe we ought to change the topic of this thread...i know i played a part in the alteration of the original discussion...but it has turned out to be quite interesting!...It's pretty much the repuation that the USA has..for example...and NO disresect to anyone from there....but let us say I had a PhD from a poor, worn torn african nation..and lets say you have the same degree/experience/qualification from the USA..which sounds more appealing? ...

I don't suppose it was actually an American that set up that rank page. It looks like some countries were not even tested on that rank.

Look at the bottom of the page -- it was NOT America that produced that ranking.

Copyright © 2005 Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University, All Rights Reserved

and do we trust the chinese either?